Who's Really the BOSS?

There may be errors in spelling, grammar, and accuracy in this machine-generated transcript.

Rachel Dillon: Hi, I'm Rachel Dillon, and together with my husband, Marcus Dillon, we lead Who's Really the Boss podcast, where we highlight the joys and challenges of running a business with your spouse or family. Our mission is to strengthen families and businesses by helping listeners avoid the mistakes we have made so they can lead.And live happily ever after.

Rachel Dillon: Welcome back [00:00:30] to another episode of Who's Really the Boss podcast.

Marcus Dillon: Hey, thanks for having me back.

Rachel Dillon: Yeah, so we need an update on Kinley and Avery. Who do you want to start with first?

Marcus Dillon: Uh, let's go with the oldest first. It's kind of how it happened naturally, too. So.

Rachel Dillon: All right, so kinley's update. She is working one day a week, I believe. She said she's working one day a week, three hours at $12 an hour. And I was like, Kelly, you know, [00:01:00] that's $36 a week that you're making, and you can spend $36, uh, in your sleep. So, um, but she is going to be working at, like, an after school program at a church for students with special needs. So she's excited about that opportunity.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. So I got to spend some time with her this past weekend at Parents Weekend, just me and her, which was kind of cool. You know, you stayed back with Avery, so, uh, she also committed to [00:01:30] working next summer at the same camp that she worked at this past summer. So Camp Blessing in, uh, the Brenham, Texas area. Special needs all summer long being on leadership there. And it's crazy. $3,000 for the summer, $300 a week for ten weeks, working up to 85 hours a week. And she raised her hand and is excited about it. So accounting firms, What are we doing wrong? Like we can't even get [00:02:00] interns to work that much for that pay or, you know, staff accountants, if you will, just, uh, all joking aside, so it's not the pay that isn't. It's the, you know, it's the mission, the vision behind the actual work itself. So. And she's not the only one that signed up for those ten weeks for three grand. It's a full docket of kids. Right. So with.

Rachel Dillon: The waitlist. Yeah. To be the waitlist. So that's.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah, that's really cool.

Rachel Dillon: That's at Camp Blessing and Brenham, [00:02:30] Texas. So that's cool. And then Avery, what's keeping her, um, excited lately? She has a ton of swim meets, sometimes two per week coming up here. And also, she raised her hand and invited the swim team to have a Bible study at our house. So that's been fun, I think, for all three of us. Um, just getting to be a part of that and have those students in our in [00:03:00] our house and we just do it twice a month. So they all come in. A lot of them come in with wet hair straight from the pool. So it's, uh, a safe space with all kind of like minded people in the room to be able to talk and, uh, learn more about God.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah, I think it's really cool. Really proud of her for doing that. Obviously, it's great to use our house to host these kids in a safe space. Um, when [00:03:30] y'all are planning this, like, somehow I didn't get a vote in this, which is fine. But, you know, the first little study group, it got to the end of it, and it was great you were leading it. Avery was helping. And then all of a sudden it's like, hey, let's break. You know, guys and girls. Marcus, you take the guys and, you know, lead prayers in the back. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like, did I sign up for this? Like, I don't I didn't get the memo on on this part of it, so. But it was all good. You know, I think it's kind of scary that [00:04:00] y'all trust me enough to take a dozen, you know, freshman to senior guys to go pray in the backyard and, uh, not worry about because, you know, my maturity is sometimes on point with, with them. But, you know, I think it was it was kind of fun and definitely not being around, you know, being a girl, dad, all that fun stuff. I kind of have to learn new things, right, with hosting teenage boys.

Rachel Dillon: Yeah. And some fun background [00:04:30] on that. Avery said she wanted to lead and host a Bible study at our house that very quickly, about four days before the first date, she said, oh, mom, can you lead the Bible study? And I was like, yes, I sure can. I sure can do that.

Marcus Dillon: You know, I think we need to watch Avery a little bit closer because she's learning too many of my tricks, especially when it comes to giving you jobs. I think we both can't give you more jobs that will impact me [00:05:00] more than it will her. And you know, it's like, hey, let's let's start this up. What about collected by DBA? Yeah. You go, you go maintain the website. You take the sales calls, you onboard, you know, the firms into the community and. Yeah, yeah, Avery is pulling, pulling something out of my playbook.

Rachel Dillon: Yeah, it's probably good when we don't have the big discussion ahead of time. Nobody can kind of bow out or, uh, resist what's happening. If you just do it as it goes, [00:05:30] then it's all okay. And we see that it's all okay. It works out really well. All right. So it works out. Conversation today. Conversation today. What are we talking about now.

Marcus Dillon: We're talking about what brought us here. Right. You know so it is more of those conversations that you have with others. And today what we wanted to talk about are those conversations of conversion, uh, which are which are fun. And when we talk about conversion in this context, that's a lot of C's. Um, we're [00:06:00] actually talking about clients, you know, so converting clients over to an ideal service offering or price, those conversations are always awesome.

Rachel Dillon: As a former teacher, I do love alliteration. So when things start with all the same letter, um, it kind of makes my heart a little bit giddy. So talking we shared, we shared on the podcast, and I can't remember which episode it was, but we shared that as we were making that transformation from mostly tax annual only clients to [00:06:30] the monthly recurring, um, full service. So bookkeeping, payroll tax and advisory clients. As we were making that transition, we had a fairly difficult time, like I that's saying it in a very nice way, but a fairly difficult time convincing those clients that we were only seeing once a year that they needed our services and how much benefit that they would get, how much value they would get from having our services throughout the year. [00:07:00] And so I think today we're going to talk a little bit different from a standpoint of where we are now and maybe how we position those conversations or just the outcome of what those look like now.

Marcus Dillon: So either way, you still want to know what your your ideal outcome is, right? Like that's where you need to start with these conversations and not in a way where you're leading the conversation, not listening to the other side. Because, [00:07:30] you know, if we were having a conversation with a client and in a scenario where they just don't need what we're selling, right. Like they signed up for something else or we acquired them along the way, either organic or inorganically. Um, and they want, let's say, just a tax return, right? Which we don't do anymore, and we're moving them towards a better way. Those conversations are hard, right? Especially if you're trying to force something onto somebody. Um, and they don't need it. So [00:08:00] you have to be open. You have to know with where you want the end result to be. And so in that situation, they either the end result that we would look for are they're either going to opt into this expanded service level or they're no longer going to be a client, like they're no longer going to be able to be served by our team. And those are the only two outcomes that are acceptable, right? And I know that leading some of those conversations over the years, you kind of give in and it's like any revenue is good revenue.

Marcus Dillon: So just yeah, we'll keep doing [00:08:30] your return. You know, it's fine. It's a thousand bucks or 600 bucks or whatever it is, and you can stay one more year, which turns into two more years and three more years. And so, um, so setting up the outcomes first. Right. And those are the only ones. And then you have to listen and you have to place it from a, you have to take it from a place of maturity, like, hey, the go into the conversation, assuming they're no longer going to be a client, just assume they're going to tell you no and that you're going to have to refer them out. So have the referral ready. That's always helped [00:09:00] us. And it's surprising to the client whenever they do say no. And you listen and you say, well, unfortunately we are no longer going to be able to serve you. Here's the name of two CPAs you know, that you should contact for that engagement. And um, so yeah, that's how I've approached them here recently. The last few years, I would say I was not always that healthy. Um, you know, I'd always accept a little bit less or, um, you know, try to talk them into something that they didn't need, which wasn't good.

Rachel Dillon: Yeah. [00:09:30] So this conversation really comes from two of our most recent, um, I guess, new clients, most recent and largest monthly Clients here recently. And I think while we wanted to talk about this and really just share, is that previously we said it was really hard to convert those annual clients that we just saw once a year to monthly [00:10:00] recurring clients. However, where we are now is just after those conversations that you said, where we've had the opportunity to present how we serve clients and retain the ones who value that or refer them on. So the clients that we work with now look very different than the clients we worked with ten years ago. And even though and we're going to talk [00:10:30] about two of these clients and we'll go with the one who is, he was more like an annual client prior to signing on to monthly services and converting. And so even though he was still like an annual, a very large annual tax relationship, we served him differently. And he valued our services at a certain level, that when we start having these conversations of he has a pain point. [00:11:00] He has a need. We're in communication with him frequently, even though we only do annual tax returns. And so I just want to talk a little bit about that. Maybe you can help give some context, even on what that monthly fee looks like, what the services we provide. And then we can talk through how we even discovered that he had new needs that he didn't have previously.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. So [00:11:30] once you get to the healthy place of being able to assess your clients and like, who values you regardless if they're an annual touchpoint or a monthly touchpoint, We knew that this family valued us, right? Not only did they come back every year for this scope of services, and like you said, it was just annual tax filings for this family group. Large family group. I think they were paying us, let's say, $60,000 a year for multiple returns that were prepared anywhere from February all the way out to October. [00:12:00] So we served them a good chunk of the year. But the other thing there is like, we know they valued us because they would call us and seek our opinion. They would book additional consultations or just seek our advice. When things came up, when investments came up or things came up within the business. And up until that point they had a back office. So they had an accountant, they had a comptroller, they had even a CFO at one time. They have a full operations team for their core businesses. [00:12:30] Now they have a core business, but then they also have, like all these other investments between real estate and some alternative investments, if you will, that are other businesses that they've invested in. So just getting your hands around some of that can get challenging. And so, you know, we we've had these conversations with, with clients that like the earlier one like, hey, for $1,000 tax return, I don't know that we're the right fit moving forward. And here's the name [00:13:00] of another CPA.

Marcus Dillon: Like the reason why we didn't have that conversation with these clients is because they valued us. And the budget for our services by their collective family group was was enough right to to keep them on the bus. And we did feel like the exchange of value for, for money or budget was in line. So things change in life and in business. What happened? Um, one of the brothers [00:13:30] is two main brothers that control all the family investments. One moved away, one, um, came back. And so just the evolution of changes in their business. They had a key team member leave, they had a CFO that kind of phased out and they started to wind down the business, but they started to ramp up these alternative investments and these other personal things. So they really weren't relying on their in-house team as much as they were relying on [00:14:00] us. So with a key team member leaving, it kind of created an opportunity to visit with them. And he came to us and he said, hey, I know y'all do this. So we did a really good job of framing like what we do in an ideal world. Like we help run small businesses and help run family offices. So he knew it was in our scope of services. He already valued us enough to have some of these conversations throughout the year. And so he reached out and we had a, you know, [00:14:30] a conversation about, hey, what would it look like to bring in an actual outside contractor into this role of this key person.

Marcus Dillon: And so that's where it started. So I think it's a long answer. But he valued us enough to even like bring us into that conversation like what is possible. And so then we went into that conversation not to sell but to serve him. And so it was more of a place from help, like you could hire this offshore outsource person. This is how we use that, or we've [00:15:00] seen other people use them. Um, they won't be able to do everything that you're expecting them to do. And even the first 2 or 3 conversations, we didn't try to sell this client our services. We were actually not talking ourselves out because we were never worried about losing the work. Right. Um, and I think that's the position we went into this. We were just more concerned about leaving the client better off than we found them. And even if that means, like them leaving the firm to go [00:15:30] get something outside of us. But it never came down to that. He was always like, well, what can you do? What can you build? And it's like, we've already got it built. Like, let's just go take it off the shelf and like, apply it to your business. So you were the one leading a lot of those conversations. So what did you find interesting in those early ones when it started out like, hey, you could bring in this contractor all the way to where they're at today as a family group. They're our largest monthly recurring revenue client.

Rachel Dillon: Yeah. So [00:16:00] I, um, we went into the conversation that the client was actually curious. He knew about what we provided for other small businesses because it had been offered in some form or fashion to him before. So he knew because we had communicated to all of the clients what we do. Um, he was not a relationship because of the he was not a relationship that we exited. And so when we went into the conversation, it was more [00:16:30] his curiosity and more of us just explaining what we do. He was very curious about outsourced team members and how that works and how they're able one how we are able to work remotely and provide those services, but two, how even offshore people are able to work remotely and provide those same services. And so really, if I have to say one thing I would say for this client, one strategy was reverse selling, but not on purpose. [00:17:00] So we were talking through we have a very close relationship of knowing the intricacies of how his businesses function and how the team that he had set up, and by him listening and trying to come up with alternative ideas. He was actually the one who, by us communicating what we do for other people, he was the one who found the ways that it could work in his business and what he was willing to [00:17:30] do, so we didn't have to convince. We didn't have to try to go outside of what we offer to everyone else.

Rachel Dillon: It was on his part that he said, okay, I think if I did this and this, what would it look like if your team came in and did something? I think what's really interesting there, where if we had been talking to a different client with an annual tax return, a business, so an annual business tax return and an annual individual tax return, [00:18:00] if we had been talking to that client and it was someone we only knew once a year, I don't think that we would hold the role of trusted advisor that we do with this client because of the value and the relationship that we have built with him over the years. By offering those consultations, by answering maybe what some would feel as the hard questions that he asked, where he really is asking the opinion. And what would [00:18:30] you do if you were in my situation and not being afraid to answer those or, um, just making the time for him to even have those conversations. And so I think that those are kind of two things that helped in this. Was that one, it was probably more of a reverse selling and letting him know these are the things that we do for others, but I don't know that it fits well in your business. And then the other, he was able to listen and was curious because he trusted what we had to say and the value that we [00:19:00] brought him over all of the years.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah, I think, uh, two things like his openness. And he said this a lot, even through the onboarding journey. It's like, I know we're not doing everything the best I want to. I want to improve. And just that openness to have that conversation. You don't see that all the time. So whenever you do have a client that's willing and open to have a conversation about, like what all options exist like you. You have to run in like you don't wait [00:19:30] to be invited in. You have to, like, do what you're called to do right? And say, like, you could do this, this, or this without overwhelming that person. So I think that's a point. Um, the other the other point you brought up about just being an advisor. Um, I think he relied on us more as like, hey, you're a business owner as well. And so thankfully we have that, you know, in, in our, uh, skill set. Right. That we've run businesses. And he was just like, what would you do? What [00:20:00] would you do if you were in my seat? Like everything that you know, what are my options? And I think that's more he came to us as opposed to as a tax accountant. What would you do? Or as a, you know, a person who puts together financial statements. What would you do? I think that's the piece where the mindset of him as a client helped us to achieve where we're at today.

Marcus Dillon: So other fun fact, um, he was actually part of the original acquisition, [00:20:30] uh, of Dillon Business Advisors of DBA. So he was a part of the $400,000 client block that we bought in 2011. Um, so he was with my predecessor. And over the years, over the last 13, 14 years, he's given us more of his business that he had at another firm. And they still require an audit for one of the businesses. So we don't do that. So we still have a relationship with that other firm that does that. And they're actually based out of Chicago. And so, um, but it's fun like that. [00:21:00] Family has the ROI on that original purchase. Right? That was a part of that. That's just one story, one family. And now at their price point of $15,000 a month, they'll probably spend 180 to $200,000 with us a year. And they've also been clients for 13 years. So whenever people talk about acquisition Position and do these really work? Like that's just one story, like of a client that we've nurtured from [00:21:30] acquisition all the way through, and we would have never gotten introduced to him. I can safely say that, like if we would have just started organically and not acquired a book of business.

Rachel Dillon: Yeah. I think something that you mentioned was kind of the the revenue from that client as an annual client versus the revenue that will be going forward as a monthly recurring. And so we were able to very [00:22:00] clearly communicate how we would serve his businesses, even though we were kind of talking of how we serve other businesses, because we didn't think that that was, you know, initially, if he kept everything internally the same, it wasn't going to be his best option. But because we were able to communicate exactly the structure of the team of three and exactly the A person the role that would do each function. That's how he was able to make it work [00:22:30] in his mind and see that, oh yes, this role of the client service manager is like my this person who no longer works here, and this person who did this is like Molly on our team who does, you know, and so he was able to put those pieces together because we have a very well-defined structure of how we serve every single client. And then also with our services and the frequency of those services. And so one of the conversations that came up, I was telling him that we [00:23:00] send out our financials with commentary by the 15th of each month.

Rachel Dillon: And he said, oh, I normally have mine by the fifth. And so I was like, well, that's the difference. Whenever you have a fractional or outsource team versus having an in-house team that works only for you and your businesses, and they only do the work for you when you want it. And so that's something that you need to definitely consider. If that's an expectation and a need that you have to have, I want to let you know what our [00:23:30] guarantee is and what we will provide. And so again, it was all of these things that because our strategy of what services we provide, how they're packaged, when we deliver them, the team is clearly defined. All I had to do was just say what it is that we do. I didn't have to go and, you know, try to figure it out and make it work and make all of the changes for him. He was just able to latch on to those pieces and say, [00:24:00] yes, that's what I need. Yes, that's what I need. Yes. That's how I can make this work in my business.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. And it's great that we had that defined. I know that if that team that serves him is listening to this podcast, like they would be like, it's not as easy as it sounds, right? You know, because there is still some, uh, training, client training that we've had to do because he was used to people that, hey, I need you to pay this before 5:00. And so that transition from in-house to [00:24:30] out of house. Right. Um, to our team is different. And so what we've had to do is go from, like, hey, we're going to start out at like, very high touch point and a ton of communication and a ton of clarity. And we're going to onboard these in waves because he had multiple entities all the way to on the other side of this, in a few weeks, we want to get it down to where it's like, hey, you've got a checkpoint a couple times a week versus every day. And like those financials for, you know, for example, like those are going [00:25:00] to come out. Um, not at the fifth. And we even had to clarify that that was the fifth business day. So it wasn't like the fifth of the month. But um, but yeah, we'll, we'll kind of work through this. So it was great having those parameters in place of what we typically do. He was a big relationship that we onboarded gradually, and I think he's now, um, like we're onboarding like some of just his last few entities and kind of getting [00:25:30] things in place.

Marcus Dillon: But that team that onboarded him, Leslie, Alana, Katie, like they had a right procedures. They had to go into everything because just so much changed. And even the client on the other side is like, oh yeah, we don't do it. Like it's just not. They understood that it wasn't clear to them and that we didn't have, like, all the pieces that we needed to set them up for success. Um, so the great thing on that one, as far as that conversation from sales to service, [00:26:00] is that he was a very open mind, and he approached us as like a great spot in that. What would you do if this was your business and the fact that he invited us in that way? It really allowed us to be that advisor versus the other conversations that we kind of started with. It was like, I'm inviting myself as your advisor and I'm telling you what you should do, and you don't want to hear that because you don't want to pay [00:26:30] any more for these services. And that's fine. So like here is your option and it's no longer part of DBA. So that's the difference in those conversations.

Rachel Dillon: I like also how you presented to him because it was such a massive undertaking. I'll say there were so many moving parts in that there are just so many different entities, and the way that our services work are monthly services for a [00:27:00] business, not necessarily for 20 businesses, um, with one owner or, you know, a partnership as the owner. And so this was a little bit different. He was already a current client, So we were able to communicate value in that this is what we do, this is how we work. This is what you'll receive as far as deliverables and service. But talk a little bit about how you communicated value as far as price, what he used to pay [00:27:30] versus what he would be paying for. That allowed him again to evaluate, is this cost effective? Like is this beneficial for me to change the whole way I run the financial side of my business? Does it make sense?

Marcus Dillon: Yeah, I think what we did on the cost benefit analysis was, hey, here's our price. We broke it down by entity. What we would charge per entity. We did provide a discount just because so much was coming over. We were able to [00:28:00] know that a whole team could serve him and that there would be some overlap and communication versus having, let's say, ten separate clients. So we knew that there would be some overlap there and some efficiencies. So we put that pricing together and then also the onboarding. So we charge for onboarding. No different here. We charge for onboarding. We also um gave some discounts on that side just to get him in. And you know the funny thing is throughout [00:28:30] the conversations he said I don't have any problem paying onboarding because I know that any conversion is going to have a cost with it. So if you're listening today and you don't charge for onboarding and like the right clients are willing to pay onboarding and are expecting to pay onboarding. So he was more focused on what's the what's the ongoing cost. And even that we like looked at, hey, this is what you're paying for your your team. Right. Uh, accounting. [00:29:00] An accountant or accounting manager or a controller and a part time CFO. Here's what you're going to pay. Even if you're going to go replace one of those people, you're going to have a recruiter fee. So that's onboarding. Whenever you're looking at that scenario. So we just weighed the two and he's like yeah it's less. How much less available are will they be. And then you start having the conversation like you've told me you don't need these people full time.

Marcus Dillon: And so like what [00:29:30] are they going to do every day. And you're paying them 80 to $160,000 per role. Um, so what are what are they going to do? And he's like, yeah, you're right. So for us, he was already in the right mindset. He was he was trying to do some of that. And we were just we're laying out the facts. It's black and white. We can add some color to it. He's obviously adding color and emotion to it as well. And we're just talking through it. And um, you know, the interesting thing was he was [00:30:00] okay on price once it made sense. Right. So that 180 to 200, probably year one with all the onboarding and just the timing of things. Um, I think he was expecting it to be a little bit less moving forward, but then he came back after the fact and was like, the tax is going to be an addition to this, right? So like the 60,000 he was paying and it was like, uh, no, that's included. And he was like, oh really? Are you sure? And I'm like, are we sure? Like, did we really price. Like can we? And [00:30:30] so that was like we actually had to say like, no, it was included. So he probably lost money on the table because he was actually expecting to pay for, for the services plus tax plus onboarding. And he was okay with it. So I would just say don't lose confidence in yourself. You know, build what you're worth and the value that you bring.

Rachel Dillon: Yeah, we'll have to give an update as that relationship moves on with how, um, what was communicated in the sales and the [00:31:00] onboarding versus what the service looks like. And if that all translated well enough, This client, you've already mentioned it a few times, but mindset is very good. He is very open to change. If it's going to be to make him better or the business is better. And so that's good. And so just how we kind of set the boundaries and pulled back in a little bit of ways as far as accessibility and communication with [00:31:30] the team. So that makes sense for both sides. So it sounds like we'll have to do an update on that at another time. The other the other most recent client that we are onboarding, I think still currently is this is being recorded. This was a client that came from a different place because while they're a current client, they're already a current monthly recurring client. So they're already being served by the exact same team. I think that we just mentioned by Leslie, [00:32:00] Katie and Elena. So if you're tracking with us, y'all send them some some prayers or some crumbl cookies or something because, yeah, they've been doing a lot of onboarding and are serving a lot of, uh, entities under same family groups. So yeah, talk a little bit about that one and how it came to be as far as a new client acquisition, even though they're already a current client.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. So so similar to the other client, like it was a family group that was expanding [00:32:30] and acquiring, uh, their regional developer of a franchise, and they had an opportunity to acquire eight franchise locations, which they know the franchise in and out, and they were actually able to get these locations at a discount. So it was a good business opportunity. They didn't really want to run eight locations with 50 employees and all of that, but it was too good to pass up. So they tapped us for like the due diligence that we could do throughout that process, helping them evaluate, [00:33:00] you know, how can we even buy these? Like, how do we find the cash or the loan to be able to do that, which was a lot of different scenarios that we had to go through to actually, um, just get to the point where it made sense, um, and not just pass us by. So those conversations and that consulting was over two months and we gave them options like, hey, we we'd love to be the team that serves the franchises much like the rest of the [00:33:30] family. And it makes sense because so much of the advice overlaps with what you're doing on that side and what you're doing all the way to the individual level. So here's price. We actually set them up on a, uh, like our base plan.

Marcus Dillon: And because it's more complex than just like one business, we actually did a per location price add on, um, for like the base. And I think we charge like 4 or 500 bucks per location of this franchise on top of the base fee. And [00:34:00] then for the payroll, it was real easy for the payroll because we've got a payroll calculator and you just drop in the number of team members and it spit out $590 a month or whatever it was. So, um, in that sense, like we priced it that way. We were there the whole time and they could have gone and, you know, pieced it together, been a little bit more cost effective on their side. But they chose to continue the white glove service that they have on their their other businesses for this new venture and make [00:34:30] sure that just it was all covered. And they they definitely appreciate, you know, that whole team, including me I have to weigh in sometimes. Um, but other than that, like the fact that they were able to get to close, that they were able to buy these and then, you know, operate them, um, profit profit wise on the other side of it, they are very happy and willing, you know, to, to pay the, the price that we put together.

Rachel Dillon: Yeah. And I think interesting about this, [00:35:00] um, kind of family group of these entities, this family and the businesses that they support. One of the owners, she actually did the bookkeeping previously, so she could have done the bookkeeping for these new entities, as they're kind of getting them back running properly and kind of get them to a good place while they're working on paying for them and all of that. But she chose to go with her team. [00:35:30] So it wasn't that she didn't have, um, the knowledge, I don't know that she had the desire really to do it, but definitely, again, it just comes down to that relationship that they've built with their team and how they lean on the the business as a whole. The team of three that they work with as their trusted advisors and asking, what would you do? What would you recommend? And then trusting those recommendations of this is what we think would [00:36:00] best serve these new entities. This is how we can do it, so that you don't lose any type of service from what you're used to, but also that it still makes sense from a value perspective. Yeah.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. So and it's a family owned business, right? It's a, it's a husband and wife that are probably 60s, um, you know, so that chapter of my life I don't want to be running books for, you know, eight franchise locations and all their other entities that they [00:36:30] have. Um, so they're truly like a family group, and, um, they've got a son and a daughter that work in the business. And, you know, this is something that they're doing, you know, to kind of continue the family legacy and give the kids, you know, a piece of the pie, so to speak, without just giving it to them. Right. They've got to work with within the businesses to take it over. So I think sometimes Leslie and myself and definitely Katie and Alana are also seen as part of the family, you know, like, uh, we're not invited to Christmas or Thanksgiving yet, but I think it's one of those where, [00:37:00] um, we just know some of the nuances that go alongside the family are able to, you know, participate in conversations and keep it light. And that was one like the matriarch of the family. Um, early on, I think she made a comment like, I don't care what it costs, we just want you all in the room because our stress level goes down when you and Leslie are here, and it's because, like, just that insight and it's like, oh, I wouldn't do that.

Marcus Dillon: Like let's, let's think of other alternatives to going [00:37:30] and doing it that way. If we have to go and do it that way as the only way, I guess, and we know what it will look like. But what other options exist to either get this closed or to onboard these team members or, you know, are these eight separate anes or are they one Ein or are we closing one location down? You know, it's all that stuff that you get, you know, in the day to day. You just you're worrying about, you know, patients and opening [00:38:00] the clinic and closing the clinic. And you know who didn't show up today and who called in sick and like, those are the team and the the advice that we provide to them. And, you know, Leslie and her team does a great, great job. So I just I'm fortunate that I get to, you know, play advisor a little bit in that whenever they need me to. But um, but yeah, they're, they're the real heroes of, of that journey because that runs so smoothly with our team being there versus [00:38:30] just the employee churn that goes with those eight different locations and onboarding and offboarding team members within a payroll system. I mean, somebody's got to do that. They don't want to do it.

Rachel Dillon: Yeah, absolutely. And so if we had to kind of, I guess, boil down the conversation to when we were serving clients annually. We had a lot of them. Um, as far as tax returns that we did and needed to be [00:39:00] done, that looked a lot different from a relationship aspect. Now, we cared about every single one, and you would do your very best to find savings for those clients, even though no one had touched their books for the whole year, or someone had, but didn't have, you know, a good handle that that definitely wasn't their, uh, skill set or their expertise, but they were kind of making it through. And so we definitely [00:39:30] had a relationship, but it's on a completely different level than the relationship that we have with clients now. That makes it much easier to offer additional services and have them accept those at this point.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah, I think early you know, the story of DBA in the early years, it was definitely transaction, right? I think, you know, we were for not to glamorize it, but we were taking numbers and plugging them into a program and [00:40:00] printing out a deliverable to get people compliant. Right. That, like, that's what a tax return does. And now come full circle. And all the technology that's involved and everything now we're able to do advisory. Um, also because we've made hard decisions along the way. So are you moving from transaction to relationship? Um, and those are the conversations that we had to have along the way. And like, knowing this person just needs the transaction done. They don't need another relationship. They're not taking the advice that [00:40:30] you're giving. And even if you give them a little bit of advice, are they valuing it or, you know, they they expecting that of you anyway? Even they are, even though they are only paying for the transaction if you will. So I just wanted to, you know, spend more time with the people that value you. I think everybody could hopefully say that. Like if someone shows value or interest in you individually or as your company, you want to spend time with them more than the people who just see you as [00:41:00] a commodity or as a transaction. So thankfully, um, you know, we, uh, adopted that mentality firm wide and leaned into it more versus just staying the commodity of a tax return that we once were.

Rachel Dillon: What would you say to the owner who is like, I would love to do due diligence for, you know, this client who would really value it? I would love to explore all options and opportunities [00:41:30] and do a cost benefit analysis for someone on outsourcing a team versus hiring or replacing in-house team members. Uh, what would you say to the person who's like, but I don't have even five more minutes? How would they how would they go about Making that happen. For their firm to become a trusted advisor to those clients who value it.

Marcus Dillon: So I would probably I would ask the question, and I was listening to another [00:42:00] podcast and heard this. Um, I would ask that owner if I were to invest $10 million in your business today, what would we do different? What would we change? And give them some time to think about it. And, you know, if that's really what they want to do and they no longer want to do the puzzle. And if money or time is the only thing that's standing in their way, you know, $10 million can buy a lot of time is what that comes down to. So after they've answered that, [00:42:30] you know, I would go do this and do less tax or whatever that could be, or go hire this person, like then take away the money, like what's standing in our way. You know, I think that's the piece where as accountants, we can hopefully go find the money, right, to do these different things. Maybe it's not a $10 million investment. Maybe it's just $100,000 into a key person that can take tasks off your plate. Guess what? That $100,000 doesn't happen all at one time when you [00:43:00] hire them. You get to spread that $100,000 or 150,000 or 200,000, whatever that person cost, over 12 months. And so it's not that big of a hurdle. And so I would I would ask that owner, like, what would it look like if someone were to write you a check and you could do whatever you wanted in this business? What would be the first thing? And that would probably tell me a lot, you know, um, because even the best, the best, most balanced people, if they were to win [00:43:30] the lottery or come into a windfall, they probably wake up and do the very same thing they do on every other day.

Marcus Dillon: Right? Because they've built a life that they love and they feel balanced. And so even this additional cash may not change what life looks like, it may give them a little less stress or a little bit more freedom to take chances or risks. But I think, you know, we are, um, you know, our, our daily life, um, it's the culmination of all the disciplines that that [00:44:00] are built into our life. Right? So our bodies. I forget how that goes. Like, our bodies are the daily choices that we make, right? And I know that's hard for a lot of people to hear, whether it's like, hey, I want to lose that extra 10 or 20 pounds and I just can't shake it. Like the reason your body is what it is. It's the culmination of all the decisions you make on a daily basis. The same can be said for your life. The same can be said for your business.

Marcus Dillon: Your business does not look the way it does [00:44:30] because you had a crappy tax season like it is all the days of every year. That's why your business looks like it does. And so to change that, you just have to take action. You have to move forward. And maybe it's such a big action, such a big undertaking, that you feel like the way of the world is on top of you. You can't ever do it. What's the small thing that you can do today just to move towards that? And I think that's where so many people get overwhelmed because they think like, [00:45:00] I want to take this business of 5000 tax clients, and I want to go get 50 advisory clients, and I want to shift all of this. That's a huge undertaking. Like, can we go get rid of 150 tax clients and give you that much additional capacity? You're not even going to miss that 150. You know, I think those those are the pieces that people just take for granted. And, you know, tax is like a drug, you know, especially 500,000 whatever you're [00:45:30] hitting at each time. It's like you see that invoice go out, you see that revenue hit and you just want more. And we were there. So I think it's a very hard realization to actually stop that and go get what you actually want. And it usually comes at a breaking point or an inflection point to where most people do have to accept it.

Rachel Dillon: Yeah. Well, I think that that's I think that's really good advice. I know that we have said it before, but, you know, stopping [00:46:00] and looking at what are you willing to maybe change, what are you willing to delegate. And then looking at what makes that change or what makes that delegation possible. Like, what's that one thing? And then what do you need to do to make that possible? If it's not possible to just, let's say, hand off that one task or that one responsibility immediately, what is the next step you can take in order to make that a possibility for [00:46:30] you and your business? So I think that there is a way I think that is the point, is that if if you want your business to look different, um, there's definitely a way and there are a lot of organizations out there that can help you, so you don't have to do it alone. So for sure, collected by DBA can help. Um, but also there are other there are other ways. There are other means to go about it, but there's no reason to kind of stay stuck or say, I have to keep these clients because they won't. [00:47:00] I have to keep these clients with these services because they won't take me up on a new offering. And I don't know where I would get a different client there definitely other ways out there.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah.

Marcus Dillon: You know, given our experience and helping other firms and even the case study that is DBA over the last 13 years, um, if you've got an accounting firm and you're looking to do some of that evolution within your own firm like collected by DBA, there's probably no better place. And, [00:47:30] you know, just speaking candidly like there's no other place that cares as much for you as we do. Um, hopefully. I mean, maybe you've got that somewhere else. We we hope you do. But if not, book a call with Rachel. Um, I sometimes will probably have to book a call with Rachel just to get on her calendar. But, um, you know, you're going to leave better off and and know what is potentially on the other side of, of making some of those hard decisions. But in the meantime, you'll also have the accountability. [00:48:00] And, you know, hopefully some of the peace that comes along with making the decisions that you know, you need to make.

Rachel Dillon: Awesome. Well, this has been a great conversation and I look forward to our next.

Marcus Dillon: All right.

Marcus Dillon: Thanks so much.

Rachel Dillon: Thanks for hanging with us to the end of another episode. Leave us a review with your thoughts, comments, and feedback on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast so you don't miss any future episodes. Join us again next week for another great conversation. [00:48:30]