Who's Really the BOSS?

There may be errors in spelling, grammar, and accuracy in this machine-generated transcript.

Rachel Dillon: This is who's really the boss? A podcast for accounting firm leaders who want to grow with intention and lead with purpose. I'm Rachael Dolan and along with my husband, Marcus Dolan, we share real stories from our accounting firm, practical firm, growth strategies, and the tools you need to lead your clients, your team, and your life well. Welcome back to another episode [00:00:30] of Who's Really the Boss podcast.

Marcus Dillon: Hey, thanks for having me back.

Rachel Dillon: Well, um, we are in the middle of tax season. I guess we can say our firm's, uh, Dillon Business advisors. We have a few different areas that we serve of the United States, but we are. We all provide tax. Um, and at the same time, we're doing monthly bookkeeping and payroll and sales tax, as well as, uh, business advisory [00:01:00] meeting. So nothing slows down for us just because it's tax season. But also we have tax preparation going on at the same time.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. Return returns have gone out. I mean, um, actually they more should have gone out in January. But we were holding up for the tax software updates, you know, and just shake your head. There's pretty big tax law change in 2025. So we had to wait a little bit. So um yeah. But you know, returns are going out because the financials [00:01:30] are done and wrapped up. And so we've probably got at this point dozens of returns that have actually been filed and accepted. We maybe we do the federal, uh, regardless if the states are available. And then we'll go in and do the states, um, most of the time after the fact if we're waiting on a state. But it gives the team momentum, um, to get started and they feel some small wins and doesn't feel as heavy. Um, so I know that we'll probably talk a little bit about [00:02:00] that today, but I feel like, you know, not only are we in like the middle of tax season, we're just in the middle of a lot of stuff like personally, um, as well. So, you know, I feel like it's, uh, a lot of movement, um, that's going on right now, uh, including where we're, uh, recording this series of podcasts, this little chapter, if you will. Um, it's been interesting.

Rachel Dillon: Yeah. Let's do life update. We haven't done that in a couple of episodes. I don't think so. Life update [00:02:30] let's do us first, because our backgrounds are different and they're not, uh, fake backgrounds. They are real. So we have moved to Fort Worth, Texas and from the Houston area. So we didn't move far, but far enough like four hours from home. And we are staying in an Airbnb because the house we bought is currently being renovated and didn't finish quite on the same timeline as when we moved. [00:03:00] So, Marcus, describe a little bit of your current home office, and then I'll tell a little bit about my home office.

Marcus Dillon: Uh, this Airbnb, it's in a historic part of Fort Worth, and it's a historic home, uh, that's been tastefully renovated and added on to, uh, but just with historic. You could see that as having old, uh, pieces that you have to, uh, work around. So I'm actually in a added on sunroom and, uh, the it's [00:03:30] been January. We've had a freeze, uh, in the middle of all this, as some of you all may know, and Texans don't do well with freezes and snow and all that fun stuff, but the sunroom is not the most well insulated, and it's also not the most cooled area of the home. So I'm definitely taking one for the team on this. Um, on the next episode, if you see me in a very nice We work or Regis space. Um, you know, the. I guess the lack [00:04:00] of insulation got to me, and I had to go, but it's very bright. Um, here. So that messes with my, uh, you know, vanity, lighting and things like that that help me look about two years younger than I really am. Um, but, yeah, it's, uh, it's a sunroom, and those are real windows. That's the real sky out there, if you really were curious.

Rachel Dillon: Okay, well, funny that you mentioned the lighting because, um, you know, where we used to record, it was really great lighting. And now my [00:04:30] desk is set up in the in between the kitchen and the living room. So it's all just one long open area. And I am just in the middle of it with full computer cameras, mics, um, paper, all the things. And so it is fantastic. Uh, but I don't miss anything because if anyone is here or anyone is doing anything else, I definitely get to hear and see what's going on. But so far, so good. Internet has been fantastic for us. Uh, with [00:05:00] the current setup where we are now. So everything's working out well.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. What I will say is your your desk and your office space is right in the middle of the main living area, uh, for the home. And we're the only two here. Obviously, the girls are both at school doing what they need to be doing. Um, so we're the only ones here with cash who's not feeling very well these days, but, um, he's hanging in there, and, um. Yeah. So we're just we're holding. Holding on, uh, for this little chapter, hoping that our house [00:05:30] gets done sooner than, uh, maybe the worst case scenario, but it it is what it is. We're we're happy to be here. We're happy to be closer to both the kids. Um, this is a fun chapter. Um, most of y'all, probably most of you that we personally know, um, have heard the story and the house there that we lived in and built for about seven years. Um, we didn't put it on the market. We just let one realtor know, hey, this would be our price if anybody comes through the neighborhood [00:06:00] interested. Our neighborhood really never had many homes listed. And, uh, the first people that looked at it gave us a full price offer on off market. And that made the decision really easy. Um, to sell that home versus kind of maintain two homes, one in Fulshear and one in Fort Worth. Like like we have been doing for about six months when we were, you know, um, balancing time between both cities. So, um, but yeah, we're we're here as of the start of this year, [00:06:30] and, um, it's been a fun ride. Um, you know, it's a change. Uh, change can be good, and it can be, um, really good. And I think this has been really good.

Rachel Dillon: Yeah. So I'll give an update on Avery, our youngest daughter. We are really close to her. Close in proximity as well. But really close to her now. So we get to see her 1 or 2 times a week. And also to our niece Landry, who is just about 20 minutes from us. So we get [00:07:00] to see her now probably once a week or more. And so that's been really fun. Avery just signed on to do, um, to have a job while she's also training and going to school. Um, but a really cool opportunity. She signed on, um, to be, I don't know, a mentor, I guess is what they call them. And it's called athlete to athlete, I believe is the organization. And so they have D1 athletes, um, who apply and then get accepted. And then kids that [00:07:30] are in their same sport can sign up for a mentor. So she will meet virtually with other swimmers who are younger than her and just help to be a mentor and help answer questions, um, help encourage them in their journey as they potentially go on to also become collegiate athletes.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah, I think it's been really good for her. You and I were talking about this yesterday, and whenever you're able to serve somebody else and help somebody else, like your problems may not be [00:08:00] the center of your life anymore. So, uh, we're we're hoping that this is a good, uh, you know, um, balance for her as opposed to always thinking about training or how fast you should be going, or that next race and all that fun stuff that, uh, an athlete has to think about. So, um, but, yeah, that's that's Avery. She's doing well. She's got a couple big swim meets coming up. Um, so I'm sure we'll share about those on the next couple of podcasts as well. But, um, [00:08:30] so, Kinley, we're actually closer to both girls. Kinley is about an hour and 15 minutes away. Uh, but the kids that go to Baylor live in Waco, they actually come to Fort Worth, uh, in the Dallas area quite a bit, um, for everything that's outside of Waco. So this is the next major, I guess, city over for her. So she is a city girl. She loves to shop.

Marcus Dillon: She loves to come into town and do all the fun things that that means. So it's been nice to see her more, um, as well. And [00:09:00] so she's got a really good group of friends, uh, there in Waco. And I think she's balancing out, you know, the start of the semester, all the things that are involved with Sorority Rush and Chi Omega life and all that fun stuff. And, um, she's having a blast. Um, she's got a mission trip coming up for spring break near the border. The Texas border in Mexico border. We don't know a lot about it. Um, especially like the political stuff that's going on right now. We'll see. Uh, you know, if [00:09:30] that's, uh, still going on. Um, and then the other thing that's on her radar, she actually, uh, has a study abroad this summer coming up. Uh, which, if some of you all remember, she already did study abroad her first semester of college was spent in Lugano, Switzerland, of all places. Uh, roughing it, of course. But, um, now she's going back to Italy, right? Like Milan, Paris. And where else?

Rachel Dillon: I'll [00:10:00] think of it in a minute, but I was just going to remind you she recorded a podcast episode. So if you go back far enough, you can find an episode that she recorded with us after she came back from that study abroad. And I think we were both very surprised that she said, hey, I want to do study abroad this summer. I'm like, really? Do you remember, uh, your feelings after the last one? So, um, that's fun. There's actually a podcast out there with her as a guest [00:10:30] talking all about her experience. So what came to my mind on update for Kindle is that currently, her electric bill for December and for January are well over $1,000, and we are trying to solve what is happening because prior to that, they were, you know, between 2 and $300 each month. And now something is seriously wrong. The electric company is saying it's not them. So having maintenance go out [00:11:00] to look at her HVAC. So all these fun things that I don't think we would be dealing with if she would have just done an apartment instead of a house with, you know, 5 to 10 other girls up in this duplex that they're in. So, um, anyway, yeah, that was going to be my update. So I'm glad you shared because that was just top of mind for me.

Marcus Dillon: Well, that's top of mind because you're the one having to call the electric company. And the power and the the people who actually own the the power, um, in Waco [00:11:30] and figuring that out. So you're doing that on behalf of five families? Well.

Rachel Dillon: We we made Kinley put it in her name. Right. Because this is her responsibilities and all of that. So now I'm calling as kindling to all of these companies and trying to go around and solve all of these things. It's kind of a mess, but.

Marcus Dillon: I'm.

Rachel Dillon: Sure it'll be sorted soon.

Marcus Dillon: We made her put it in her name, but it's being paid with our credit card, so I don't know, like, um, those, you know, parents [00:12:00] of other young adults that are listening to this. Hopefully you did better than we did. Um, you know, the parents who are yet to be there. Hopefully you figure out from our mistakes what not to do. Um, that's all I'll say.

Rachel Dillon: But anybody wants to share parenting advice with us, clearly, we could use it, so that would be great. Yeah. Um, but we were talking about actually, I think I just saw that you responded to a LinkedIn post. Um, and it just caught my attention. Just some of the questions and thinking about what [00:12:30] are the norms for firms during tax season? What does it actually look like? What are what do people allow? What do people expect? What are kind of normal things that people do? What are special things that people do during tax season. So really wanted to talk about kind of, you know, our do you feel like your firm is in control of tax season, or do you feel like tax season kind of controls your firm? Um, but we'll talk through all of that. [00:13:00] So if you want to just kick us off with a little bit about where your head was, as you were.

Marcus Dillon: Thinking, I wrote that without AI, you know, it's just sitting on the couch during my morning, um, you know, my morning quiet time and saw that I was tagged in something. Uh, our friend David Costello posted the question out there and tagged, you know, a few different people. So definitely felt like I had to respond, you know, wouldn't want to leave somebody hanging. Um, but it was just how do you keep, um, [00:13:30] you know, how do you keep it light during tax season? How do you keep moving? How do you keep the team engaged? How do you keep them motivated? Our friend Logan threw in pizza parties, which is always just, you know, a tongue in cheek joke. We've all probably worked in firms where pizza party was the motivation and, um, yeah, it's just not doing it anymore. And for us, as a remote team, like that would cost a lot of money to send everybody pizza. Um, you know, all 30 ish team members. Um, so [00:14:00] glad that we do other things, but, um, but, yeah, you know, reading everybody's comments, it had good activity. And, um, so I just put in, you know what? We've seen the work that we do, uh, with other firms and obviously the work that we've done within DBA, um, the hard work starts outside of tax season.

Marcus Dillon: Right. And so you develop a plan, um, hopefully you've put some things in place prior to tax season. We call that improvement season. Uh, that starts after tax [00:14:30] season. And I know that a lot of people resonate with that, because that's when you are figuring out what you just went through trying to maybe assess and then fix and just get better. Um, compared to what you just came out of. And so that improvement season for us for 2025, obviously we had, um, some growth in there, but things that we wanted to improve and we're still learning. There's always room for improvement at VBA and at other firms. So we're we're just learning alongside our friends. But [00:15:00] for the most part, we did set out some things, um, that really are, are defined going into this tax season. And then we can always supplement. You can always do little things, uh, for yourself or for the team as needed. But we wanted the big rock, the big rock pieces in place, uh, before we really started down the path of, you know, this time of year.

Rachel Dillon: Yeah. So, um, can you just [00:15:30] mention a few of those things that we improved ahead of taxis and I have some things in mind, but you start and if you don't catch them, I'll share mine.

Marcus Dillon: Well, I mean, the first thing is, um. And I'll, I'll just share even what we're currently still learning. Um, you know, part of it is, uh, the team of three structure, which we've talked a ton on. And if you've never heard of, there's plenty of podcasts. If you want a resource, we'll give you all the resources for it. Um, but having a, uh, [00:16:00] set role team in place for client service, uh, client service manager, client controller, client CFO, having conversations with that client group throughout the year to make sure that they're well informed and engaged and not just during this time of year, during tax season. So like that's step one, like in our history of DBA over the last 15 years, like that was one of our biggest wins by far. And so that that has made um, client service so much [00:16:30] easier. It's made client expectations and just Communication that much better. So that was that was huge. The other one is, um, just frequency of touch point. And who does that? And after we've defined that team, then that makes a lot of sense. So the fact that we're sending out financials by the 15th of every month, that allows us to do the tax work, uh, very quickly and get things in, there's no surprises because not only are we keeping up with the financials, but we've also done [00:17:00] tax projections in Q4 for those clients. So they kind of know where they sit. So we're just trying to minimize surprise, um, as much as possible. So those are the big ones. From a client service perspective. Obviously we can talk about like the team stuff next. Um, but was there anything else from like a client service perspective that maybe I mentioned or that I typed out that you wanted to dive deeper in?

Rachel Dillon: Well, um, one of the things from a client service [00:17:30] perspective that we started figuring out or or working on, started thinking about and then really used the first couple weeks of this year to finish. Um, ideally we would have finished it prior. We added some new team members and got their input on some of these new things, but just reconfiguring the organizer or what is sent to clients to make sure that it is easy to use for them. And then whatever [00:18:00] comes back to our team is easy for our team to implement and apply to the return. So one that it's relevant, but two that we're going to have, um, like 100% completion because it's going to make sense to the client when they receive it. And there's not just going to be pages and pages of information that doesn't apply to them and overwhelm them, so they just don't do anything with it. So that was one thing that the team actually worked on together. So Aaron [00:18:30] and Cordell for sure. I'm sure Amy was in there with them at some point helping with that. And then of course, Dee and Julie get brought in as well. As far as like getting it out to clients. So a lot of team working together on that, but something that will make their lives easier, um, as they're getting information back from the client. So that way prep moves a lot smoother, a lot faster.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. Um, you know something, uh, you know that I can't [00:19:00] speak highly enough of the the team and especially Csms, who are doing a lot of, uh, points of contact with clients on service, and they're keeping things moving throughout the year. They're in charge of a lot of different pieces. And we think the world of our csms and know that that's a huge role to fill on the team. And, um, they we've employed double, which used to be a keeper, um, you know, for a couple of years now for the 1099 process and having all those [00:19:30] work papers and closeouts in one place. And so the 1099 process within devel was very helpful. Um, so far this year, what I would say, what we're learning, um, we're trying to learn just as much as we're, we can during this season, um, coming out of January and you know, to 99 season. It's really had us question should we be doing to 99 at all for annual only clients. Um so and I in [00:20:00] my mind even though to 99 is a compliance piece tax filing, um, it's more bookkeeping and accounting specific versus tax and compliance in my mind. And if you're a client, you're not engaging us for monthly recurring accounting services.

Marcus Dillon: You can do your own to 99 is kind of how I'm feeling at this point. And I'm saying that because those annual clients are the chaos [00:20:30] that happens with 1099 filings. And we at DBA had gotten to the point where we weren't doing too many 1099 outside of our monthly clients. Um, maybe just some family groups, some different things that were going on, um, throughout the year. But then when we grew and acquired some firms in 2025 that were doing to 99 for annual clients, it's it's real clear at that point. Um, those are the last to nine nines that are getting filed. Uh, they're getting closer to the filing window. You're paying a premium if you're [00:21:00] using software like tax to 99, because there's expedited fees to get mailings out before the deadline, you may miss the deadline. So I think going into next year, like that's one thing that we've learned, um, I can say from every team member that's involved in the 1099 process, they would love that recommendation. Um, and the fact that I'm probably speaking it now, no one listens to this podcast, but the fact that I'm speaking it, they, uh, may hold us accountable to that next year.

Rachel Dillon: Yeah. One [00:21:30] thing that we've done with our clients that are on, um, monthly services. So on cast services, our client service managers are reviewing quarterly and requesting w-9 requesting them as soon as they notice. But at least every quarter, the client service managers and even comptrollers to help hold accountable our spot checking to make sure that we have w-9 for all vendors. That way, when we get to January, we may have a couple to request, [00:22:00] but not not many at all. And when we have those annual only clients, we have a we have no idea what's been going on all year long. We have no idea how many vendors, how many to 99 they're going to need, um, if they've asked for w-9 or not, if they can get a hold of the people, if we can get a hold of the annual client. There are so many things, um, that cause that to hold up where the other ones are going out seamlessly, really with financials and things there. They're being calculated [00:22:30] and ready for preparation. Um, really close with their financials. So yeah, I think that is definitely something that we have to make a decision on and communicate with our annual clients. Either there's an opportunity for us to help more and include that service, or here are some resources so that you can do this on your own next year. We won't be providing that service to you, but communication is going to be key timing of getting them that communication. [00:23:00] Um, mid-year, as close to mid-year as possible, not waiting till November when people are thinking about Thanksgiving and Christmas. That's going to be, uh, a little bit rough on those clients if they were assuming you were going to do it. Um, just making sure that they have that information well, before Thanksgiving. Um, I think mid-year would probably be best if we're going to make that call.

Marcus Dillon: No. For sure. Um, so so that's a recommendation, I think. What [00:23:30] team members would love even more than the pizza party, um, is just like that. You're taking their feedback and really trying to employ that in the future. So obviously services like 1099 for annual clients, we're evaluating. The other thing that we do during this time of year is evaluate client relationships. And we're constantly evaluating that, and that's where it's just making sure that that the team members know that they're heard and valued. Um, so there's a spreadsheet out there on, you know, in our [00:24:00] team's channel that anybody on the team can nominate a client for exit. Um, at any point. I haven't, I haven't looked at it in a few weeks. Hopefully it's not full of just like every client, but, um, we do give them that option to say, hey, like, if someone's very difficult to work with, if they're rude to you, if they're just not responsive. We we may not know that. We may only see the work go out and the client pay the invoice. So we want to get get that feedback [00:24:30] from them. And I would say being in different roles over my career like that means way more to me than like a slice of pizza. Just knowing that my voice and you know, is being heard, and that the concern for what my daily interactions with others is really like.

Rachel Dillon: Yeah. So I think one of the other questions was talking through, um, what does it look like? Is it required overtime? Is it, um, some [00:25:00] kind of a bonus day off or half day Fridays or, um, casual Fridays? What's kind of the norm for accounting firms? So for DBA, our norm is to keep Flex Fridays as what we call them. Um, but for our workday Fridays throughout the entire year. So let's talk through just a little bit of how that's a possibility even during tax season.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. Um, man. Like it's [00:25:30] amazing things that we started so that for our half day Friday was was started really as giving people back their time where they worked extra during tax season. So that used to only be part of the year. I think it was started out as like summer half day Fridays, and then it progressed into all year except busy season. And then now we made it a goal to have it all year long. Uh, and it's been a few years since we've done that. So full time 40 hour [00:26:00] employee actually only works 36 at DVA. And you know, some some team members may work more than 36 hours a week. It just it's based on what they've got on their plate, what, what they're really trying to do from an individual goal perspective. Um, but that's the first, you know, thing that that Flex Fridays. Uh, we didn't want to take it away from people. We value a slower Friday afternoon as well. And a lot of clients aren't around on Friday afternoons [00:26:30] either. So some people still choose to log in and work, um, just because it is quiet and they can get stuff done and feel better about their weekend, but it's it's not required. Um, as far as published office hours. So, um, that's the first one. Uh, the second one. So in 2025, um, we had defined number of PTO hours based on your years of service at DBA in 2025, we introduced and brought part time team members into PTO, uh, fully across the team. [00:27:00]

Marcus Dillon: Um, and we're in multiple states too. So if you're an HR person and we're screwing it all up, please let us know. Uh, I don't think we are anymore, but, uh, you know, we've got some resources there that are helping us, but, um, we we brought PTO team members and or part time team members in to receive PTO. So the way that looks is if someone typically works 24 hours a week, they work four six hour days. Um, for the most part, we we did that same weeks [00:27:30] of PTO based on their base week. So if their base week is 24 hours of PTO, their years of service, they get four weeks of of PTO, then they get four times 24 is how we position that in 2025. Um, we did that for one year, one year only. Uh, because it's PTO is just such a pain in the butt to track. And we've got, you know, ADP approval system with RPO. And then we've track it in canopy, our practice management software. So [00:28:00] there's just a lot of reconciliation you don't like. Ultimately you want people to use their PTO and have time off, not necessarily be worried about tracking their PTO and time off. And it's just the administrative burden. So effective. One 126 we went to unlimited PTO and so that includes part time team members. Um, same thing like based on their base week of employment. Um, and for team members, full time, unlimited PTO. Now there's boundaries. [00:28:30] There's guardrails in place around, um, how that's used, how much can be booked at a time.

Marcus Dillon: So there's still things that are being done and have to seek approval. And then there's there's a whole nother set that respond to, you know, being out of the office for an extended amount of time for different things. Um, but we did go that way. We felt our team was mature enough and could be trusted with something like that and that hopefully, you know, I know that it's been discussed like people take less time [00:29:00] off with unlimited PTO. Like that is not our intention at all. Um, and so it's just one more thing, um, that, that is there for a benefit for team members. So as part of that, as part of embracing time Away, um, we we've tried to do our best to open up all times of year for people to take time away. And, um, you know, I've taken we as a family have [00:29:30] taken spring breaks in the past. Uh, we probably won't this year, but we're traveling a lot, as is we. We probably just won't have the week of spring break as travel. Um, but, Leslie, other people on our team have definitely taken it up to this point. This year, we have other, um, other roles taking spring break. Uh, client controllers are taking spring break, which are more your tax manager. And the way spring break falls in most of the United States, it's mid-March, and that's [00:30:00] when the business tax deadline is. And that's when you're.

Rachel Dillon: You just called most of the United States, Texas. Like if it happens in Texas, most of the United States, I don't I don't know that we could we could quantify that. It's most of the US.

Marcus Dillon: Well, I thought about Mallory in Colorado, and I guess Texas has left its mark on Colorado enough that Colorado's spring break kind of is in line. But yeah, the the very northern states where you have a lot of seasons and snow, maybe your spring break isn't mid-March, but um, [00:30:30] but yeah, it's it's not an ideal time if you're a tax heavy firm and one we've balanced the work enough to where people can do that. But we've also, you know, people are mature and they're adults and they work within a team. So if if someone's taking a week off, then they can get support from other team members. And you would expect that same support whenever you want to take a time, time away. So um, but yeah, it's it's one of those things we've got team members taking spring break and it just is what it is like. We don't see DBA, [00:31:00] you know, in the eyes of a tech shop where we're doing blackout dates and stuff like that. We see it as a business and, you know, we serve people evenly throughout the year. And as part of that, our team should be able to have a life all year long.

Rachel Dillon: Yeah. Let's just talk a little bit about too, when when someone's taking PTO, it's for more than a day or two days. It's rare that that person is going alone somewhere. [00:31:30] Um, most of the time, for us in our business, it is. People are going either traveling with their family, with their extended family, traveling with friends for a special occasion. So you can't really determine when that's going to line up where all parties can travel at the same time. Um, especially for us. That's why we started taking spring break, because the girls would get a little bit of time off of their swim practices. They would have off of school. So then [00:32:00] it was really up to us to determine how do we make this work so that all of our schedules align and we can all go at the same time. So when we think about like, well, if you have a team member that their main role is tax, that is that is their main responsibility to handle tax for clients. And they want to take off in March. Well, they should just know that that's not available. Um, I think that that is shortsighted and potentially, you know, may lose good people over [00:32:30] that. And so we just wanted to make sure that, again, that we were mature about that. There are a few things that are set up within DVA that allow us to be able to do that. One is the way that we provide services, but also two is just the the people that we work with. So our team members, um, in realizing, yes, this is my responsibility. I'm not pushing [00:33:00] this off onto someone else. When I leave, I need to figure out how can I maximize the time before I go out of town and after I go out of town to make sure that all of my responsibilities, um, that I can fulfill, like all of my own responsibilities and just have coverage really on the communication or requests that might pop up while they're out.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. And, um, we've all been there, you know, you are most efficient [00:33:30] and effective right before you go out of town. And, you know, it's just one of those where our team has done a really good job so far of planning for that, making sure that everybody knows well in advance whether it's the leadership team, their team of three. Um, so like that's part of this approval process, the leadership team, really it doesn't start with that. It starts with their team. Um, so you have to let your team of three know the the dates and make sure that nobody else is, [00:34:00] you know, put in a weird spot because of being out of the office all at the same time or something going on. So it starts with the team of three. Um, just to make sure that DBA has coverage and then, you know, leadership team after it's been okayed as a, as a team, you know, then we get brought into it and you're ultimately the the signer in your role as far as approver goes. But um, but yeah like that's it's just you're not gonna if [00:34:30] you have blackout dates and you tell people they can't do they can't live life during four months out of the year, uh, they're not going to leave your accounting firm for another accounting firm. They're going to leave your accounting firm for another profession or another industry altogether like that. People have way too many options. And so like, that's that's what we're up against as employers. Yeah. We do accounting. Yeah we do tax. But that's what we're up against. We're not up against the CPA firm down the street [00:35:00] anymore. It's a it's a different ballgame.

Rachel Dillon: Yeah. Can we talk a little bit also about how we provide services? We're um, we are not going to sit and pretend that we didn't do two acquisitions in 2025, and that all of DBA currently operates in ideal situations with ideal clients fit into ideal services. That is part of the refinement of 2026, um, and ongoing. [00:35:30] And so it is helping to get clients into those appropriate services and then also assign the teams to all of those clients for our clients, that is moving along beautifully and working. But there are still a higher volume of annual tax clients that are being served by DBA this year than in a whole lot of years, I mean, since probably 20, maybe 18 or [00:36:00] 2017. So it's been a long time since we've served this volume of annual tax clients. Um, I want to just share a little bit about the team of three approach that we're taking there as well. And it's like most literal form, the way most people are using a team of three model. And how we created it was for those monthly services to create balanced workload, to create, um, like duplication and oversight of responsibilities [00:36:30] so that people could be out of office with no interruptions to service. But for team of three for tax, for these annual only clients, we wanted to make sure that they are served just as well, that there is some oversight and support and backup just in case someone needs to be out. So we have actually applied that concept to the tax only clients. We'll talk about our tax advisory plan services [00:37:00] as well. Um, in helping with how do we make an annual tax return more spread out and higher value to clients throughout the year? But our team of three when it comes to an annual tax return, we have our tax administrator who is doing all of the communication back and forth between the client.

Rachel Dillon: So sending out organizers, requesting information, sending out, um, engagement letters, or at least generating [00:37:30] those, they go in mass. Um, there are a lot of automation built in, but she is really overseeing that and then making sure that they're getting saved and transferred to where they need to go. She also does back end and sends out completed tax returns, accepts 8879 and files the return. So in a lot of firms that's done by the same person who's preparing the return or the same, whoever is reviewing that return is doing all of those steps. So [00:38:00] breaking out the administrative parts and giving those to, um, a professional who can handle that and communicate with clients gives a lot of time back to preparers and reviewers. Um, our tax administrator is so great that she does some preparation as well. So she is quite amazing. Then the second person in that team of three for tax clients is the client controller or a tax controller. Their main responsibility [00:38:30] is preparing tax returns. So for our tax advisory plan clients and for um, just kind of this higher volume of tax only clients that we now have, uh, with the acquisitions, they are really in charge of preparation and even all the way through review for a lot of those clients. And then their final person in that team of three is our director of tax and financial planning. And so again that's his role is a [00:39:00] lot of education and support and even project management and um, like role management for the team, as well as reviewing more complex returns and doing planning with the clients.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah, kind of like a QC role as well. He'll look back, um, because Aaron is newer to the team, he hasn't been in DBA a full year yet. So he's there, um, to have conversations with clients as [00:39:30] needed. Um, you know, just in his role currently. But really it's still the same. We want the client controller to have those conversations. Uh, a big part of how we can deliver things smoothly is also through video. So we do voiceover commentary on every deliverable. And I, you know, you kind of mentioned, like we may say, we do things perfectly, or it may come across that way, but it is no way intended. Like, there [00:40:00] is still gaps that we have to identify and plug. And part of that is, you know, newer team members coming on board that aren't used to sending video commentary, like we have to coach them through that, show them the resources, explain to them why it's done that way and how it leads to better conversations with clients versus scheduling a meeting, sending the document, and then spending the first 30 minutes just going over the results. [00:40:30] Um, so all that to say, like Vimeo is where we landed, we can password protect Vimeo. It's a low cost. I know other people use loom, but we use voiceover commentary for every deliverable financials, tax returns, tax projections, um, even some administrative forms, uh, have more of a library that go with that form, um, where a team member is talking them through.

Marcus Dillon: Hey, this is what we need on a new employee. W-2 packet, you know, or I'm sorry, W-4 package. [00:41:00] Um, so a lot of that is, um, can be standardized and help, you know, just be done and, um, give people back time because more than likely, the client isn't going to be available during business hours, especially when you talk about, like, Flex Fridays and PTO and all that fun stuff. It's just a moving, um, moving target. So we'd like to to meet the client where they're at and have a human voice to that. So that's part of a big part of our story. The [00:41:30] other thing we added is meeting people where they're at from a communication standpoint. Obviously a lot of people live in their email. A lot of people live in text in their cell phones as well. And so that was asked in that post, like, do you give people your personal cell phone? We started this business 15 years ago. So some of those people along the way fooled me into me giving them my personal cell phone. Um, and yes, they have it. And that's what they use instead of any other [00:42:00] communication source.

Marcus Dillon: Well, I may not be the best person for them, given what their need is. And, um, so we've tried to route everything through formal communication lines as much as possible, which for us is email, because then email can feed into our practice management software. It can be viewed across the team, uh, and responded to appropriately. The next step is having, uh, we have zoom phones as our phone system, and that allows us [00:42:30] to do SMS texting with clients. Clients may think that your direct line of your zoom login is your cell phone. That may give them the warm and fuzzies that they're talking to you. But that's how we've set it up. And you can even set up automations and route and do different things to where those individual communications that are happening. Sms are feeding into a program like teams like slack, like canopy, and they're being tracked and they're being, you know, documented. So, [00:43:00] um, that's a big win for us is just communication, meeting people where they're at because, you know, we're busy, our clients are busy. And so we just want to continue to maintain great service and support, regardless of either of our schedules. And by doing that, it allows us to have a little bit more freedom and flexibility across the whole team.

Rachel Dillon: Yeah, I'll tell you, because I talked to our prospective clients, um, ahead, and their eyes just kind of light [00:43:30] up when I say text. Uh, it definitely a certain age demographic, right? Um, but for people probably around our age 50 and below, when you say text, they're like, oh, really? I do think that they maybe assume they know what's going direct. I don't know if they care if it's to cell phone or not, but they know it's going directly to the person that they need to hear from or need to get the information to. So [00:44:00] they love that. And for me to say that I don't have to feel guilty at all thinking that somebody's personal cell phone is blowing up with text, that that is going to their work line, that they can check when they're working. So, um, that feels good on both sides. So if you're wondering, do clients even want to use text? Uh, a lot do. I would say if they're over 50, probably less, but under 50 years old, they're definitely [00:44:30] open and up for that because they know how quick it is for them. Um, and they just assume, right. Like your response time would be quicker if they're able to just text.

Marcus Dillon: No, that's the hard thing is, uh, what we've seen over the years, especially as my role has evolved and it will continue to evolve as growth allows it to. Um, you're most likely not going to be the one serving that client. And so it's more of just the [00:45:00] delegation game. Um, this happens all the time through email. Uh, a client will email me directly, and I'll have to respond and loop in the rest of the team. And one of those team members is really the best person for that. Um, and even sometimes I will give the response that I would normally give to that teammate to then deliver. That way they can build up confidence. And it it's very similar because I'm giving it so the client you know expects it. So I think those [00:45:30] are those are just the little you know evolutions that we've seen over time. Uh, we are by no means perfect and still learning just alongside everybody else. Um, you did mention that this is a year of refinement. Uh, tax season is the best time of year to really reflect on, refinement and identify, um, who you should be serving, what you should be doing for those people and things like that. Uh, we're seeing that a lot. If you're going through that and you want to experience a lot of churn or a lot of, uh, [00:46:00] just reflection on who you are, adopt the term refinement. Um, you know, it's there for the taking. Uh, but that's our 2026, uh, just as a natural evolution of growth, refinement, excellence and refinement means for us.

Marcus Dillon: Like, we may have served somebody in an annual capacity for one year, and then we've given the opportunity to go into a different service line, whether it's our service line or our Tap service line, or just [00:46:30] being priced appropriately. And, um, in the past, we would give people a couple different opportunities to tell us, no, um, where we're at today as a business, it's just one time to tell us no before we exit that client relationship. And sometimes they don't even have to tell us no. We just already know it's not a good fit. And and we'll, um, exit the relationship. And in the past, we've done that through grading, client blocking and monetizing those relationships. Um, [00:47:00] this year, I don't know that it's going to be that formal. Um, we may just exit some relationships and have those, uh, clients who would soon to be former clients just go find their, uh, their next service provider on their own. Um, so we'll just continue to try to do that with at with all the best care that we can, um, to leave people better off than we found them. But in this year of refinement, um, it [00:47:30] starts with reflection during this time of year and that can that can be your whole team. And I would highly recommend that it be your whole team to make sure that you're listening to their voice.

Rachel Dillon: Yeah. We have, we have a I think it's a webinar. Yeah, it's a webinar. It's on YouTube. So collective by DBA, YouTube that you can go out. It's called evaluating your client list. There's probably a podcast or two that's also on the same topic. Um, but just that goes through a little bit more detail of [00:48:00] grading, blocking and monetizing clients who are no longer ideal for service or industry or price. Whatever it is, they're no longer ideal for your firm and what to do with them once they're identified. Again, that is going to create capacity for for your whole firm. But for individual team members, that's going to go a lot further than a pizza party or bringing in dinner or a happy hour. Um, all of those things are great, [00:48:30] but allowing your team more freedom to go home, um, after at a normal time, every day and all year long is going to go a lot further than a one time meal or party. And then let's go through just what is our tap. So you mentioned tap I called it tax advisory plan. Um, we shorten it to tap. But this is the service that most individual annual tax clients will be offered. So [00:49:00] if they are still, um, a client for whatever reason, and they only see us once a year for their 1040 tax filing, maybe they have a trust filing that goes along with that, or some kids that go along with that filing. Um, we have a plan called tax advisory plan that includes tax preparation and two tax projections.

Rachel Dillon: So a mid-year projection with a consultation that they can schedule, and then a year end projection [00:49:30] with a consultation that they can schedule. Um, this also gives them an introduction to their team of three. So if something comes up out of the year, they would be able to send an email and someone would be available to respond and not have to go do hours and hours of research to find out who is this person, what is even included in their tax return. It would be someone who is familiar with their tax situation. The nice thing about that is one that's a monthly recurring [00:50:00] revenue service. So that is billed like on a subscription basis. And also we get to look at their tax position and financial position twice a year outside of tax season. So we already have an idea of what's going on as it's happening. And we can start requesting that documentation. We know what to ask about, what to look for. Also, we are not delivering bad news surprises in the middle [00:50:30] of the busiest time of year that might be long. Drawn out conversations, highly emotional conversations, or just require 2 or 3, um, client touch points in the process when we are the busiest, have the most volume. So that is the type of service or plan. We don't necessarily have to say, you're not a small business. We're not going to work with you. We have solved for that with our tax advisory plan.

Marcus Dillon: Um, what I'll say there, uh, [00:51:00] kind of in closing, most of our clients get tapped like they get tap included. And it is the individual service that we do for our Cass business owners. But for non business owners, maybe they've got something else on the side that adds complexity and creates value that we can bring to the relationship. What I would say is you mentioned not delivering bad news. I like the returns that I still review for the limited number of clients that I serve. I'll [00:51:30] look back at the tax projection that we put together, especially if they owe money and I'll say, hey, like, I'm not delivering that news. The controller is, but I can high five after the fact. Uh, so I respond, but you know, dear Doctor Smith, you owe $50,000 with this return. I'll look back at the projection that said they were going to owe 80. Right. And I'm like, you only, oh, $50,000. Like, we did good work to kind [00:52:00] of reduce from that worst case scenario tax projection that we did in Q4. And that $50,000 feels a lot better than $80,000. So, um.

Rachel Dillon: Even with that, though, we have given a heads up of like, where are we going to get this money? Because there is going to be an amount owed. So we start talking through, where's the cash going to come from to pay for that? How can we set that aside? And that conversation starts even earlier in that mid year [00:52:30] projection or during quarterly meetings or things like that. So even that, um, with just both of both service lines, Cass and um, tap, they're both set up to where clients are better off. It is a value add. It is a better client experience.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. And you can't that conversation up like like you said, hey, you owe 50. Because the other kicker is your Q1 estimated tax payment is also due April 15th. [00:53:00] So then you've got to make that next payment. We're not having that conversation in Q1. We're having that conversation in Q4. Right. And it's hey, you're going to owe 50. You're going to owe $80,000 with this return in April, and you're going to have to pay another $50,000 in estimated tax payments. So it's actually going to be 130,000. Whenever you can come alongside, you've given some advice right at year end or confirmed some things like, yeah, that new equipment is going to be worth X or whatever you did. We [00:53:30] got it down to 50 and then, yeah, you're still going to owe 40,000 or 50,000. Maybe that estimated tax payments gone down, but 100,000 feels a lot better than 130. So those are the conversations that you can have outside of tax season. And because you don't have to have those heavy conversations during tax season, it's better for your team. It's better for you. It's better for your client. Um, and I think that was the goal of, of that post was just, hey, how do you how do you get through this? How do you make it lighter? Because, uh, [00:54:00] accountants, for the most part, we love accountants. They're typically helpers. They want to help and serve others. And, um, they want to be liked. They want people to be happy when they're around them. Uh, regardless if you're introvert or extrovert, whatever. And that's the thing, like you, you're in a position where you have to usually deliver bad news, especially at tax time. So if we can address that, get around it, have better conversations throughout the year. It's a much better tax season.

Rachel Dillon: Yeah, you hit it. The hard work is [00:54:30] done both in the operational and planning for internal team and processes, and planning with clients is done in Q4. It's done the year before. Um, that eliminates the I talk with team members and clients all day long, so I have to stay from 6:00 till midnight doing the actual work, because all I've done all day is put out fires, deliver bad news, um, try to solve life's [00:55:00] problems, and then now I have to stay an additional six hours. So, um, all of these things that we have seen eliminate the need for that and take us back down to 40 or less hours, mostly 36 hours per week, um, for work. So thank you. Thank you for sharing. Thanks for responding to a random LinkedIn post. And, um, just prompting this conversation. I think it'll be super helpful for others to hear, Here, especially given this time of [00:55:30] year?

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. No, I think it was helpful. And if none of that works, people can move their office into a sunroom of an Airbnb when at the end of the day, when you're supposed to shut down, the temperature drops so much that you can't stay out there and work, I think that's the other option that you've got. So either way, um, hopefully you've learned something on this conversation.

Rachel Dillon: I love it. Well, um, we will continue the conversations on the next episode. [00:56:00]

Marcus Dillon: All right. Thanks.

Rachel Dillon: Thanks for listening to this episode. If you enjoyed the conversation and want to learn more, be sure to visit collective. You can schedule a meeting directly with me, Rachel, by clicking on the Contact Us page. Be sure to subscribe, like, and share so you don't miss any future episodes. We look forward to connecting with you soon!