Who's Really the BOSS?

Attention: This is a machine-generated transcript. As such, there may be spelling, grammar, and accuracy errors throughout. Thank you for your understanding!

Rachel Dillon: [00:00:03] This is Who's really the boss. A podcast for accounting firm leaders who want to grow with intention and lead with purpose. I'm Rachel Dolan, and along with my husband, Marcus Dillon, we share real stories from our accounting firm, Practical firm growth strategies, and the tools you need to lead your clients, your team, and your life well. Welcome back to another episode of Who's Really the Boss podcast.

Marcus Dillon, CPA: [00:00:32] Hey, thanks for having me back.

Rachel Dillon: [00:00:34] We have a very special guest, actually, a returning guest with us, Sandra coach with Aurora consulting Group. Welcome, Sandra.

Sandra Koch: [00:00:43] Hi there. Great to see you again.

Rachel Dillon: [00:00:46] Yes, we are so excited to have you back. And we asked if you would return to talk about a little bit of a different topic today. And so just in case someone has heard us in our were conversations before. They don't have to turn it off and say, I've already heard this episode. It will be completely different and new info shared. Um, but will you give a little self intro for those listeners who haven't had a chance to meet you?

Sandra Koch: [00:01:14] A little self intro. Well, um, I am Sandra Koch. I'm the firm owner, sole firm, owner of Aurora consulting Group. We were founded in 2011 back then in San Diego, California. We're a small six person team. Um, I'm married and I have a two dogs, Lexi and Kira and, um, five grown children, three grandchildren. And I am the oldest of six children. I have five younger brothers. So I don't know. That's the first thing that comes to mind.

Rachel Dillon: [00:01:57] That's so good. Sounds like family is a big part of your life. For sure.

Sandra Koch: [00:02:02] It is. Yeah.

Marcus Dillon, CPA: [00:02:05] And I love how, like, no client talk came out of that. It was just like, hey, this is who I am. This is who I grew up around and helped shape me to where I am today. That's great. Um, it's cool to 2011. So entering into year 1516, that's actually the same as DBA. So 15 years. Uh, I don't know about for you, but when I look back, it's like that 15 years seems exhausting. Uh, just how many times, uh, you had to reinvent yourself? Most likely how many curves and, uh, straight and narrows. You've had to kind of live through. Uh, part of that in your story is you mentioned moving or starting in San Diego. You are not in San Diego today. And so some of the folks that may remember you from the first podcast, you could also share about where you're located. That would be great as well.

Sandra Koch: [00:03:00] Yes. So the company was founded in 2011 in San Diego, and then I actually relocated in two locations, um, for a short time in Visalia, California and San Diego, California. That was, um, between 2014 and 2016. And that, you know, was a life change because the kids had all graduated high school. And, um, it was time for me to do something different. So I moved to Central California for a little slower pace. And then after ten years in Visalia, um, it needed to be even slower. So, um, to just about coming up on in about two weeks, it'll be two years that my husband and I relocated to, um, Baja California Sur and we are about 45 minutes south of La Paz, on the Sea of Cortez, side of the peninsula.

Marcus Dillon, CPA: [00:04:03] Very cool. Yeah. And another big milestone is you actually built a house and got to move into that house, is what I hear. Correct.

Sandra Koch: [00:04:13] We finally actually finished building the house, and we officially moved in. We started moving about ten days ago and we finished moving on Saturday. So, um, yeah, we are no longer camping out in our little tiny vacation 600 square foot vacation rental anymore that we thought we'd be in for six months and we ended up being in for two years. But yeah, it's pretty exciting. It's pretty exciting.

Marcus Dillon, CPA: [00:04:42] Yeah. Those, those plans of, uh, working with contractors always seem more hopeful than they really are. And I could only imagine there's a multiplier effect whenever you go to Mexico and have those same hopes and dreams.

Sandra Koch: [00:04:58] Yeah. It's, uh, it's a, it's a humbling experience. That's what it has been. Any, any ego I had left has now been stripped from me as a result of moving to Mexico and building or building a home here. I can't even believe it. It's done. It's I was in building mode. We were in building mode for so long. When it was time to move in, I actually was a little dysregulating because I was like, I don't know how to not be building a home in Mexico. It's been so all consuming. And so, um, yeah, it's really, uh, it's a, it's nice to be moving on to a new chapter.

Marcus Dillon, CPA: [00:05:35] Yeah. Well that's exciting. And, uh, I know that Rachel and I talk all the time about the distractions, uh, of, of life. So, and once you move past like a season or a distraction, however you want to think about that, it'll be interesting. Like where you place that focus on. So hopefully your team members and your clients aren't like shaking that. Oh, now she's more focused on us and what that means. Uh, but it'll be, it'll be good to hear, uh, initially where your focus is going to land after something like a big build and then move and everything that goes into that, hopefully you also have some rest scheduled, uh, on the other side of the move, because that's really important too.

Sandra Koch: [00:06:17] Yeah. Um, yeah, I did that in advance, silly as that sounds. The weekend before, we were like the week before we were supposed to move, Jeff and I had, um, planned like a two day getaway to the Pacific side of the peninsula. Okay. Um, and I kept asking him, should we cancel it? Should we cancel it? Like we're supposed to be like, moving, right? He's like, oh, no, we're going. You need to get away. And so we did. We actually took a pre moving vacation and went and hung out over on Todos Santos for a couple nights and completely unplugged. And it was it was really, really useful. So, um, yeah, we were, we were locked and loaded and ready to go when it came to moving.

Marcus Dillon, CPA: [00:07:09] That's awesome. Well, I may try that next time to actually get the pre and then also argue for the post, uh, trip. Uh, yeah, I don't think Rachel would complain, uh, with two trips to decompress.

Rachel Dillon: [00:07:22] I know Sandra, you're already dropping all of the advice just in the first couple of minutes. And so I know that when we were at recharge in Mexico with collective and you and Jeff were there, I was already hitting you up for what does it look like to purchase property and build your own property in Mexico? And you were giving me a ton of tips and things that we should know ahead of trying to start an endeavor like that. Um, but you've had a firm for 15 years. You have built a house in Mexico. You have lots of family. So of all of that, what is your best piece of advice that you'd like to share today? It could be across any of those lenses or maybe it applies to all.

Sandra Koch: [00:08:09] Um, well, I was told when I was growing up, don't sweat the small stuff and it's all small stuff. So that's always stuck with me. I don't always remember it when I'm supposed to remember it, but it really is all small stuff. We know when something really, really matters and those things we look after. But no stress. Easy does it.

Rachel Dillon: [00:08:37] That's yeah, that's really good. And I think that that actually does apply across any area of life. Anything. Right? You can apply that at business at home. Um, anything that's coming up that's really important to just keep that perspective for sure.

Marcus Dillon, CPA: [00:08:55] Yeah, that even probably applies to the season that you're in with wrapping up the house, the move, all the small stuff keeping long term in mind. So yeah, um, can be useful regardless of the, the situation for sure.

Sandra Koch: [00:09:10] Yeah, we're just, we're just, I mean, there's so many things right now that are, that are going to be unfinished business in our life after, after building the house, there's a lot of unfinished business. It's like, okay, the house is done, but there's all these things that we want to do to the house and we want to put a pool in, and we want to put a big garage in, and we want to do all this landscaping. And the reality is, is that's not happening right now. It's just not it's not for a multitude of reasons. Um, mostly because I'm tired of spending money and I need a break from it. I'm exhausted by it. I mean, you get to the point where spending money becomes like, just, I'm tired, I'm done. I don't want to anymore. And, um, so, you know, being in this place of like pause is really what I'm kind of leaning into like, no, we're just pausing. And if I think of a, I want or I need or this, I want this to happen, I basically in this place where I'm like, okay, it's going to get written down and then it's just going to sit there. Um, because no big changes is what needs to happen right now. No major changes and just like settle into the new normal, which is so different than any other experience I've ever had in my life. Um, I, I've had a lot of different experiences, but this one's new. Yeah. So we'll see what happens.

Marcus Dillon, CPA: [00:10:43] Right? Writing, writing the book as you live it. Right. That's great.

Rachel Dillon: [00:10:47] That's such a wise advice to take into business as well. A lot of times we have talked about the idea of a parking lot because a lot of our leadership team, we have a lot of great ideas and trying to focus and stay committed to really one big priority at a time or a couple of initiatives in different departments at a time. Um, having kind of a parking lot where we write things down and then reevaluate those throughout the year. We don't want them to get lost or forgotten, but also sometimes we need to really focus and not take on anything new until we've gotten really comfortable in whatever those priorities at the time are. So I think that that, um, yeah, your, your, your wants and your needs can go in a parking lot. Right. And, and stay there. So you don't forget about them. They're still there. Uh, and then you can address them once you guys have built up some habits, routines and rest in your new home for sure. All right. Sandra, will you just remind us a few of the, let's say, key metrics or characteristics of your firm? So will you tell us revenue size, your ideal clients and your services that you offer to those ideal clients?

Sandra Koch: [00:12:11] Okay. Um, so we're fully remote team based out of Visalia, California, still. And there's six of us, um, sprinkled between Mexico, um, California and all the way, all the way up to Indiana. Um, our revenue is hovering right around the low 700,000. And um, we are, we service, um, clients that are mainly in the service industries and be with revenue between 1 and 5 million.

Rachel Dillon: [00:12:50] Love that.

Sandra Koch: [00:12:51] That's awesome. And then yeah, so we provide as far as services we provide, it's accounting, tax advisory. And then we kind of expand a little bit more into like operations management support. We really, when a, we've just found that when a client comes to us with a question, we don't ever want to turn them away and say, have fun with that. Good luck. So we end up our client. Cfo ends up supporting in a lot of different areas. Um, so, and because of the tech stacks that the individual clients have that touches all these different areas of their businesses. So, um, it's definitely not just limited to accounting and tax.

Rachel Dillon: [00:13:47] Yeah. That's good. I'm sure they really appreciate being able to lean on you for more because obviously all areas of the business affect finance. So, um, I'm sure that's super helpful for them being that you guys are fully remote. Will you share your tech stack? What are some of the big softwares and apps that you guys use to stay connected to each other and to your clients?

Sandra Koch: [00:14:13] Let's see. Well, we use to each other and to our clients. We use Slack and also carbon. And so our clients are on carbon for clients and we keep all of our work inside carbon, um, our emails inside carbon. And, um, we can tag each other in mentions on there. We use Slack minimally at this point. We used to use it a lot more. Um, let's see, we're on Qbo. We use ignition for all of our agreements, and we use ramp for AP internally. And also, um, we share that with our clients and we use two different payroll platforms with clients, gusto and rippling, which integrate really well. Um, and there are two different options based on the needs of the companies. And I don't know if there's any, I guess Google workspace. Um, that's key for us and we use all the tools inside Google workspace, as many as much as we can just so we're not buying, you know, Calendly and, you know, like special tools for surveys, we just use Google forms. So when we need to, whenever we need to do something, we always go to Google workspace first and see what is free and is included in that. And usually it does the job for us.

Marcus Dillon, CPA: [00:15:44] That's great. And tax software. You had mentioned you're on Proconnect, right?

Sandra Koch: [00:15:49] Oh yeah. Sorry, I didn't mention that. Yeah. All of our all of our clients are on Qbo. Um, if they're not on Qbo, we get them on Qbo. And, uh, yes, we've been on Proconnect since like 2010.

Marcus Dillon, CPA: [00:16:06] Okay.

Sandra Koch: [00:16:07] I mean, since before I started this firm. No, no, I formed the firm in 2011, I think it was 2012. A year later, uh, H&R block brought purchased Redgear technologies in January of 2012 and dissolved Redgear. And Redgear was my software provider at the time. And so I had about two weeks to find a tax software. And at the time, Intuit was able to pull all of my client data and import it, and they were the only ones who could do it in two weeks. And I was like, well, I guess they're my new. And I had no time to research. No time to. And. But I just figured it out. And so we we haven't. We've been on Proconnect all these years, and I've thought about getting off of it and wanting to like, go back to pro series or to, or to assert. Um, because I was on pro series for years, I loved pro series, but every time I called into it, they just couldn't be interested in helping us do that. So I'm like, I, and I didn't have the bandwidth to push so hard. So, but pro connect's really gotten better and better and better and better and better over the years. And at this point, it really fits the bill.

Marcus Dillon, CPA: [00:17:29] So yeah. Yeah. Sandra, the great thing about your stack is just that it's all cloud based, that you weren't dragging a server around moving that to Mexico, trying to figure that out. And if that went down, that means the team went down, which is, you know, some of the things that you carry with you throughout this journey. And there's a lot of firms that are still operating on the server in the closet. So it's cool that you were there pretty early on in your journey, even though it may not have been a always a fun journey to be on when people buy software and then turn it off really quick.

Sandra Koch: [00:18:03] Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, as much as the struggle is real with Intuit, um, Intuit has continued to develop products that do get the job done. And so, um, it's, it's served us well. I mean, I just was a real believer in QBO from the, from the, from the time it started. I mean, it was, it was so awful back in the early days. I mean, it was so they, it did not have a bank rec feature when it first came out. I was like, how can it not have a bank rec feature? Like this is so elementary. And um, and then it did a couple years later. And so I started toying with it right when it right when it came out. And I would wouldn't put any of my clients on it, but I, but then I did pretty much as soon as I got a bank rec feature, I started putting clients on it and everyone was telling me, oh, it's so, it's so not this and it's so. And I'm like, they're going to get better. That's what Intuit does. They write software, they're going to do an incredible job and they. And they have. So yeah, I'm I'm pretty I'm pretty proud of that, though. I'm pretty proud of it that I could kind of see the future when I could see where things were going such a long time ago that I just made all of our investment and time and learning and in what was going to be in the cloud and just really focused on that.

Marcus Dillon, CPA: [00:19:38] Yeah, no, that's great. That's great. Uh, inside and just forecasting what you wanted the firm to look like. Maybe didn't always know that you wanted to land in Mexico and run it from there, but, uh, yeah, it all worked out. Uh, before we go down kind of the, the journey, if you will, any other tools from like an AI or technology side that you're using or are you using kind of the Google Gemini or are you playing with anything else as you look at your tech stack?

Sandra Koch: [00:20:12] That's a great question. I didn't even think about that. We have team accounts for ChatGPT and Claude.

Marcus Dillon, CPA: [00:20:20] Okay.

Sandra Koch: [00:20:21] Um, we also use Blue Jay. So we have a Blue Jay account, a one user Blue Jay account. Um, Blue Jay has been invaluable. Yeah. It is, it's a game changer. Um, I'm really, really grateful for Blue Jay. It has saved us hours and hours and hours, um, in tax and or even accounting research or trying to figure out how to explain things to clients. Um, I feel like Blue Jay is incredibly reliable for our industry. Yeah. Um, now Claude and ChatGPT they are toys is how I view them. They are their toys to be played with and they're nice for anything that is, uh, that is subjective. Sure. But, um, ChatGPT and Claude are not for anything that is objective. And if it is, then it's our job to prove it. Um, but they are not reliable for objective work. No problem though. They're great for subjective work. And, um, I've had some really exciting experiences around using ChatGPT and Claude where I had a, a stream of consciousness that I shared with Claude. And the next thing I know, the whole thing was built out in a functional way that I could use. And so yeah, so we've got everyone, I'm encouraging everyone on the team to use it. Another thing I should mention, when it comes to software, we're, we're also on easy llama and so easy llamas for all of our internal training.

Marcus Dillon, CPA: [00:22:04] And yeah.

Sandra Koch: [00:22:07] And I mean, and I don't mean QBO training or pro connect training because that's built in, but I mean, all of our security awareness training, all of our AI training, all of our empathy training, all of our customer service training, like that's all inside easy llama and easy llama has been also a huge game changer. Um, so that's been a really big part of developing the team is using that tool and it's all it's one platform for all the training. So that's been really nice.

Rachel Dillon: [00:22:43] How has that sped up? Is that per user or for a range of users? How do you how do you is it a subscription or a annual fee? What does that look like? Um.

Sandra Koch: [00:22:56] I don't know, but it's really affordable, I don't remember. Yeah. I feel like, I feel like I pay it annually. And I think for our team size, it's like 8 or 900 bucks a year for and it's like unlimited. Yeah. So you could just like keep going. And they even have a feature where you can build your own trainings. So you like upload what you want the training to be based on. And it will actually create a training module based on the information you uploaded. It's pretty slick.

Marcus Dillon, CPA: [00:23:34] That's great.

Rachel Dillon: [00:23:35] Yeah, that's super awesome. Marcus asked about AI, and I'm going to take us the complete opposite direction of AI, and I am going to ask about the human side of your business, of your firm. So thinking about your team and your clients, I feel like we have a lot of tools in the accounting industry. We have a lot of tools and a lot of people talking about what to do with AI, how to use AI, um, maybe more talking about it than they've actually built out things that work in the AI platforms. Um, but I would love to talk through, uh, just your team and caring for your team. I think sometimes just hearing ideas of what firm owners and firm leaders are doing to take care of their team and attract new team members is also very valuable. As valuable as what software are we using or how are we incorporating AI? So thinking about your team. What do you do to intentionally help your team thrive, which you may have already started answering with Easy Llama? Um, I can see that being one very intentional thing that would definitely help your team thrive.

Sandra Koch: [00:24:55] So I think that the biggest thing we do is offer a very flexible work environment. And we try to every job has a job description, but every person is unique. And we actually just went through an iteration with an employee where the job description, my expectations, the employees abilities, capabilities and strengths, they weren't all matching. And so I'm, I guess it's about meeting people where they're at and then helping them grow from there. Um, and that's just really about taking an honest assessment of the situation and going, okay, what's working and what isn't working. And so, um, I'm really happy how that all turned out because it was getting really rough. It was rough for me. It was rough for other, other, other staff members. It was rough for the employee. But we took a hard look at like. How we could make it better and did that. And it was kind of an aggressive change, um, and a total rework and stripped down of a job description. And now what's come out of that is the employee is now we're, we're now building on the things that she's really good at and adding more of those things. And it just, we couldn't see it because of the chaos that the mismatch was causing. Um, and I guess that kind of leads to, you know, the big picture, which is really thinking about people as humans who have personalities and they have feelings and they have their own stuff going on in their lives and just meeting them exactly where they're at. Um, and being patient, you know, sometimes you just have to like really listen. Um, because I want what I want and I want it now. I mean, that's just how I'm wired.

Sandra Koch: [00:27:13] I just know I'm wired like that. But that pause and, and really thinking about what's happening, um, broadly and thinking about where we want to get with the team and then what's going to get us there and what's going to get us there is unity, Honesty, trust. Um, if we don't have, we don't trust each other, then I, I can't, I can't expect, um to have a united front, you know, where everyone's going to bat and um, so I need to trust them and I need to make sure they trust me. So how I interact with them really matters and really listen. And it's been, there's been some trying times the last couple of years on the relationship side. Um, and man, we've come out the other side and it's just by really just being patient. Um, you know, just yesterday in our staff meeting, I had, um, one of the team members basically say like they were really struggling and I was like, okay. And then I messaged her on Slack. I cleared your calendar, I canceled all your meetings, you're taking the rest of the day off. Let me know what you need me to do to cover for you. Like I was too busy to do that, but it needed to happen. It was like. And it didn't need to happen like in a week. It needed to happen right now. And so I think it's about like getting out of myself and being aware of what's going on with the people around me. Um, so I don't know if I answered that question right. But that's, that's what I just ask it a different way if you want me to answer differently.

Marcus Dillon, CPA: [00:29:13] No, I think that I think that was great.

Rachel Dillon: [00:29:16] Yeah. I think you answered that perfectly. You mentioned flexibility at the beginning of that and you have a remote team. I know that you have staff meetings. I believe weekly, you have client work that needs to happen and different people meeting with clients throughout the time. So when you say flexibility, what does that look like for your team? Are there any set parameters or set boundaries where people are required that allow some collaboration?

Sandra Koch: [00:29:46] That's a great question. Um, so the team meeting is non-negotiable. Everyone has to be there. Uh, Tuesday, 10 a.m.. Um, it's required. Um, a lot of flexibility is reliant on just on manners and thoughtfulness. Um, we ask everyone to. There's, there's one, two, three for most of us work pretty much 9 to 5 hours. And so there's no real issue with that. Um, most of us do. There's a couple that don't, um, for whatever reason. And we just asked two things and that's that you communicate really well and we communicate through our calendars. If you're not available, your calendar is blocked. And if you're going to be working a certain during certain blocks, you let people know. So and we just need that so we can book meetings. I mean, really, it's so we can function. But beyond that, I actually. And we don't have in our employee handbook. And it's there's no policy anywhere in Aurora that says you need to work any certain hours or any certain days. Um, we're bound by California wage and hour law. So I ask that you don't work more than eight hours a day because I don't want to pay you overtime. Um, but other than that, no, it's, um, you know, people can work at from 11 p.m. to 4 a.m. as long as, you know, they make themselves available when other people need to meet with them. So it's when it's flexible, it's really flexible. I mean. And I think that's been incredibly powerful for when an employee has a child that is in like five day a week, you know, playoff games and their half days for two weeks straight. And they're able to go because they can just make it work. They can I can trust them to figure it out. And they do. And it's temporary. It's two weeks, you know, and but you know what? Then in ten years, they're not going to ever regret, you know, having missed those two weeks of, you know, half days that they'll regret having missed their kid's sporting event, that's for darn sure. And that's not the kind of work environment I want to create.

Marcus Dillon, CPA: [00:32:20] I think I think that was great, and I think we've taken a similar approach. Um, we're a lot of people, you know, they look to you, they look to us and they say, you're running this remote first business, supporting team members in a variety of different places. You're supporting clients in a variety of different places, places, and you're so flexible. So a lot of times they just question the reality of it, how it works. So giving what you just mentioned and how the team cares about it from a client perspective, what do the clients care about? Like, what are you seeing on that side that allows the team to have this flexibility and you to run the firm in this way? So what, what fills the client's cup and makes them stick around versus question, what are they doing over there? Because so many old school people that grew up in our industry can't fathom what you do. So what what keeps the clients engaged?

Sandra Koch: [00:33:21] I would say what keeps the clients engaged is our responsiveness. And I think that kind of leads back to our tech stack And our constant communication with each other. So. We use so one tool that we use is um grasshopper for our phone system which we also have had since 2011. Um it's kind of antiquated. It's unsophisticated, it's really affordable and it works, but it's, I, we have one phone number and everyone has an extension, but every phone call that comes in rings when it doesn't go directly to an extension, it rings on the general line and everybody's phone in the entire company rings. Anybody can answer the phone. Um, so that's one piece. So the phone gets answered. Secondly, we have a text line on there that every single employee of the firm is on that text line. So if a text message comes in from a client, If and it's directed towards me and I don't see it, I'm going to have my staff calling me, hey, you need to answer so and so's text and vice versa. I mean, and that's policy. That's a written policy. If you want to talk about things that are like rules, if a text comes in and you know it goes unanswered for an hour, you need to reach out to the person that was directed to and tell them to respond. So that just those two forms of communication that are always responded to quickly is really powerful. And the clients love that. Um, they also love the fact that we answer our emails in carbon. We have a really slick tool where we can actually monitor our email response times. Okay, so we can set goals for email response times and work on that as a team to improve our response times to clients.

Sandra Koch: [00:35:27] Every single team member has a booking link in the signature line of their email and, um, they can, uh, any client can book a meeting with any, any staff member at any time. Yeah. So the accessibility and availability and, um, we just, and I think because there's so many, there's, we have, because we have a team of three approach, every client has their CSM and their controller and their CFO. So they've got three points of contact. So there's no, there's not one person. One person can be out of the office and the ball's not going to get dropped, which is an amazing feeling. Um, so the, I mean, the clients are just, they just love it. Yeah. And, and when something happens with a client in their personal life, um, that has nothing to do with our relationship with them. You know, we've had recently, we had a client have, um, who's, um, had a family member pass away and we found out about it and, and we did, we took action. It's like whenever we find something out, we try to let everyone on the team know, just so you know, so and so's family member died. So just get in your body before you get on the phone with them. And be aware that you're talking to someone who's going through a hard time. And, um, and then we just try to like do something, you know, whatever it is, who knows? It might be flowers, it might be a plant, it might be something. And it's, it really, it really does make a big difference. And you hear it, they tell you and it's like somebody noticed, um, that they were going through something hard.

Marcus Dillon, CPA: [00:37:17] Yeah. No, that's really good. And like you, you mentioned the team members will remember that they had the flexibility to go to those games. Ten years from now, those clients will remember that you cared enough about what they were walking through to either send flowers or a plant or cookies, whatever, whatever you could. So that's, that's really good. And I think you've kind of bridged some of the gap between like where we're at today and where you're at. Like from a technology standpoint, everything is in the cloud. You run a remote team from a foreign country. Um, and you're able to get work done. You're able to serve clients really well and you're not, you're not using like space age technology, you know, you're not running this business with, with things that are so like beta version, you're running it off of grasshopper, which has been around for 15 years. And you know, you're doing it in a way where everybody's phone rings, which is people in our industry can connect to that. The ones that would would say, question how you're able to do a lot of this. They would be the ones to also stand behind that.

Marcus Dillon, CPA: [00:38:26] No, the phone has to be answered on the second ring and you've got to give that type of attention. So I love the the blending of, you know, the service lines, uh, to make it, to make it make sense for you and your team and your client base. And that's ultimately what you've explained is you like to treat people like adults. Uh, a lot of the common sense and the golden rule of life is what you employ. And so, uh, we all try to overthink and overengineer so much of our lives, right? And so I think what you've already shared is, is just great simplistic approaches that you don't need to overcomplicate it. Um, maybe in Mexico, you don't have as many options when it comes to, uh, hardware and grocery stores. So you just take what you get and maybe that's what's coming across now and how you run the business. But yeah, I love, I love the approach because it seems like you, you know, what you care about and you care about the humans that you do life with both the team and the, and the clients.

Rachel Dillon: [00:39:25] I want to pull out one thing that you said that may have sounded really simple to you, Sandra, but you said it is a policy. It is written down about the expectation for how communication works in your team. I think that that is something that we often forget. And as leaders of firms, we kind of end our day with some frustrations or random frustrations around things. And I think that that is a good reminder for all of us to think about. If we do have a certain frustration to think back, do we have it as a written expectation or policy anywhere, or are we just assuming and wanting people to know these things without having been explained and communicated in the right way? So I love that you said that it is a that is a rule or that is a policy in your firm. Um, because I think that's a great reminder is we can just take inventory. If there are some things that feel frustrating and they feel like they're happening more than they should. Did we ever make it a policy? Did we ever write it down? Did we ever share it with the people who need to see it? That's a really good thing. Um, one other thing I wanted to ask you about as well, just because I think it's one of the greatest things about how you lead your team, your team meetings. Can we dive in a little bit more about some of the things that you guys do in your team meetings?

Sandra Koch: [00:40:58] Um, well, we start our team meetings off by reading our mission statement and values, which is kind of long, and we read it every week. So, um, we have a little, uh, Andrea has a little spin the wheel thing. She does, she runs, she runs the team meetings and it picks random names. So it's kind of like, a Wheel of Fortune kind of a thing. And, um, so someone different reads, um, the mission statement and values every week, and then we launch into, um, what, the, what every, what people are struggling with, what they need help with what they're proud of. Um, just a quick summary of in the last week, like what are the work highs and lows, you know, or what do you need help with or, and just making sure that people are not holding that stuff inside and that we're celebrating their successes. So we do that. That's quick, um, maybe one minute per person. And then we launch into our book club discussion. So we have a book every month and every week we discuss the book. Every one shares what they're getting out of what they had read in the prior week. Um, they're the peer pressure factor is wonderful there because if people haven't been reading the book. You know, they get left behind and everybody knows because they didn't have anything to share. So that's kind of fun. Um, the books have been invaluable in, uh, in soft skills development for the team.

Sandra Koch: [00:42:39] And so it is, it's me though, right? Because this is what I've been doing my whole life, and I'm just pushing it down downstream and saying, this is what I do. You're going to do it too. So here we go. And, um, and then we have our announcements. Um, whatever they might be some new thing that we're doing, um, letting people know of something important and we do our, um, we do our, everyone's, I guess special events or anniversaries or birthdays or vacations, you know, our calendar. And then we do our highs and lows and, um, our happies and crappies and we don't discuss clients. Uh, clients are not ever discussed. We used to discuss clients at, at staff meetings and we thought that we were supposed to, we thought that we were supposed to talk about problems or talk about how we were going to handle client situations. And we learned at some point, and I don't know when it was that there was nothing, people were not leaving staff meetings, a feeling good. And that was the opposite effect that we were going for. And B, our staff meetings were lasting way too long. And so it was more appropriate to discuss anything client related on a meeting that was designed specifically for that purpose. So, you know, really my goal, and I think the team's goal and what we're trying to do with the weekly staff meeting is to just turn it into a pep rally, ultimately.

Marcus Dillon, CPA: [00:44:25] So that's great. Uh, Sandra, before Rachel makes us wrap up and stick on time. Uh, I love the book club concept and what you're reading together and leaders are readers and all the great quotes out there. Um, what's one book that you've read together as a team that really stands out?

Sandra Koch: [00:44:46] Unreasonable hospitality, which just got brought up again this week. That was incredible. Um, anything by Patrick Lencioni. Yeah. Anything by Patrick Lencioni. We just read Getting Naked last month. Amazing. Yeah. Amazing book. Um, yeah. Yeah. So and then, yeah, I mean, I don't know. I can't even write. I wish I would have written those down.

Marcus Dillon, CPA: [00:45:11] No. You're good. You're good. I'll put you on the spot there because it's funny. Like with with unreasonable hospitality. I was already thinking that you had probably mentioned radical candor because of like, we.

Sandra Koch: [00:45:22] Actually haven't read that yet.

Marcus Dillon, CPA: [00:45:23] Oh, wow. Like that's, that's where my mind went because of how candid and how, um, vulnerable, how open you all are as a team. So that's a good one to throw out there. Uh, it's been around the block a while, so, but yeah, that's, those are great recommendations. I'm sure people are writing those, writing those down for sure.

Sandra Koch: [00:45:43] Do you have any recommendations, you two?

Marcus Dillon, CPA: [00:45:46] Well, we're a big fan of, uh, Patrick Lencioni as well. So like, um, the, the working genius is what we just did. So we'll do a lot of books, but we'll also work in like assessments because people love to break down themselves, learn more about themselves. So the working genius is what we're going through right now. We've done plenty of Enneagram, uh, before. So, but yeah, like those are all great options. Um, you know, the five dysfunctions of a team is a really good one, too. And that way, people that are running businesses, especially professional services where you're serving clients, you know, managing team members, kind of trying to get through your day in your own life as well. And just those personal experiences that are documented and written down, um, just remind you that we're not crazy. Everybody goes through a lot of the same stuff. And, um, all of our collective experiences together can help us navigate it better than if we try to do it alone. So all of those are really good.

Rachel Dillon: [00:46:53] Yeah. A couple that I love to read in a team setting or in a group setting, atomic Habits and the Miracle Morning are both, they're actually similar to each other, kind of build on each other. But those two, I kind of love you get stuck in a routine and think that you can't do something new. Um, or it's, you know, like, how can I fit something else or something different into my schedule? And I think that those open up a lot of possibilities and help you look at kind of your what has become habit or ritual and think about it differently. If that's something people are wanting to change.

Sandra Koch: [00:47:32] That was the one I was trying to think of as atomic habits, because that was one of my favorite. But I wrote down the Miracle Morning. I'm excited about them.

Rachel Dillon: [00:47:40] I think Unreasonable Hospitality now has a field guide that they've put out, like a workbook that goes with it. Um, more recently, and I was looking at that actually a month or two ago and thinking about, do we, do we look at doing that with our team, um, or with a group of people maybe in collective or something like that. So I think that that would be a lot of fun as well. All right. Final thoughts, Sandra, anything that we didn't cover that you'd like to share about how you care for your team or care for clients, or even just how you kind of balance work.

Sandra Koch: [00:48:23] Oh, boy. Um, I think that the only thing I'd really like to share is that there's a lot of really great information out there and a lot of wonderful resources and a lot of people trying to help make things better. Um, but I think for me, I looked for years to try to find, to try to figure out how to fix my broken accounting firm because it was broken and it was broken for a lot of years. And I was on a, I was on a hunt and what was missing for me was having a community. I kind of operated, you know, as solo and with a small team that I didn't really have a support system. And also I kind of needed to sift through all the information that was available out there to find what was right for me. And I tried some stuff. You know, in 2017, 2018, 2019, that did not work for me. It was like I, it was requiring me to twist myself into something that I wasn't. And so I think that what I've learned through that whole process was, is I've gotten to know what my values are, what I believe is right for the clients, and then the tools and resources and the information that I'm bringing in need to match that. And if I'm trying to twist myself into something that I'm not, that's inauthentic, it's going to fail. Like every time. Um, you know, I went through the whole, you know, all the, the whole craze about selling tax plans. And that just made me feel like confused and stressed out. Mhm. You know, and now I'm like, I don't do that, you know?

Marcus Dillon, CPA: [00:50:17] Yeah.

Sandra Koch: [00:50:18] I don't do that anymore. But I, I tried it, so I tried things, I tried lots of different things over the years. And I think just getting to a place where you really, when you match your firm to what your value system is and everything's just smooth. Mhm. Um, and so I think if there's stressors or things that feel like they're, um, just not working or they're, you know, it's like gear grinding, it's because things aren't matching up. It's, it's inauthentic. There's some inauthenticity happening somewhere. And, um, so I just think it's really important to like, ask ourselves what's important, what's important to us, what our values are, and then make sure that's what's being reflected in our work. And if it is, then things are just going to, they're just going to like click right along so well.

Marcus Dillon, CPA: [00:51:11] That's really good. It's, it sounds like you're comfortable in your own identity, and that comes across and how you work alongside your team and how you serve others. So that took decades for us. So glad you found that along the way as well. Um, but yeah, that just makes it all kind of click.

Rachel Dillon: [00:51:30] All right. Well, thank you guys so much. Sandra, thank you for being our guest. Mark. Marcus, thank you for, um, co-hosting with me. And, um, I know that everyone listening will take away so much. So Sandra, thank you again for just being open and sharing with our listeners.

Speaker 4: [00:51:50] Thanks for listening to this episode. If you enjoyed the conversation and want to learn more, be sure to visit collective dot CPA. You can schedule a meeting directly with me, Rachel, by clicking on the Contact Us page. Be sure to subscribe, like, and share so you don't miss any future episodes. We look forward to connecting with you soon.