Who's Really the BOSS?

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Rachel DIllon: Welcome to Who's Really the Boss podcast. I'm Rachel Dillon, and along with my husband, Marcus Dillon, we share the joys and challenges of leading a $3 million accounting firm together. From team structure to growth strategies, we share our leadership successes and failures so you can avoid the mistakes we have made and grow a valuable accounting firm. Welcome back to another episode [00:00:30] of Who's Really the Boss podcast.

Marcus Dillon: Hey, thanks for coming back.

Rachel DIllon: We have a special guest with Marcus and I today. We have Nate Goodman from Goodman CPAs. Welcome, Nate.

Nate Goodman: Hey, thanks for having me on.

Rachel DIllon: Yeah. So want to definitely invite you to the podcast. We are highlighting another accounting firm this week on the podcast and excited to hear your story, Nate, and how you have grown your firm and even how it started is really, [00:01:00] um, interesting and will be interesting to all of the listeners as well. And so let's start with just getting to know a little about you. So professionally and personally. We like to know it all.

Nate Goodman: Sure. Uh, I am a firm owner of Goodman CPA. I've got three boys. They're five, four and two. So nice and crazy. We live in Black Mountain, North Carolina, so it's near the Asheville, North Carolina area. And [00:01:30] we have chickens, which is a lot of fun. We just put four chickens in a box because we needed to take them to a friend's house this morning. So that was my morning before I came to the office. And so far, in terms of the firm and professionally, we have, uh, started to grow over the past five years. And it's been a learning curve and I have a lot more to learn. I'm still really new at this, and so glad to be working with you guys, as well as, um, other people in the community, just to keep learning and growing, because I [00:02:00] feel like there's always something new I can learn. So.

Marcus Dillon: Well, I heard that you've got your oldest five years old in the firm is also about five years old, is that right?

Nate Goodman: Um, yeah. That's right.

Marcus Dillon: Uh, okay.

Nate Goodman: So December of 2019.

Marcus Dillon: Okay. And how's that? Uh, I guess, what was the the nerves like to launch the firm? Obviously have maybe a newborn or a one on the way and [00:02:30] just everything that went along with. And then obviously having a couple kids on the other side of starting the firm. Uh, do you just, like, stress? Uh, you know, I think is the first question coming out of the gate, right?

Nate Goodman: Oh, man. My wife and I talk about this. We're also renovating a house right now ourselves. And I said, you know what you should do when you first have kids is you should you should start a business. You should buy a house, and you should have kids all at the same time, because it's not not one of those things that's stressful. [00:03:00] Yeah.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah.

Nate Goodman: Um, I never I didn't start the firm originally as a CPA firm, so I didn't have my CPA license in 2019. My goal was to do bookkeeping for churches. And so I got my first bookkeeping client in October of 2019. And I feel tremendously blessed by the mentor that I had who was a CPA firm owner. And a few months before that, he I had introduced myself [00:03:30] in August and he said, I basically explained, I want to work with churches. I want to help them with financials. I want to be able to, you know, have good work life balance. And I have some mentors that are doing this and only working, you know, 20 or 30 hours a week. And he looked at me and said, well, what are your credentials like? Do you have any experience? Do you have any education? I was like, I have an MBA, but not very much accounting. He says, well, No one's going to trust you if you don't either have education or experience. And so a week later, I re-enrolled [00:04:00] after finishing my master's and got my certificate in accounting so I could sit for the CPA license in 2020. And he said, if you'll do a tax course, I'll bring you on as an intern in tax season of 2020. So he hired me December 2019. So my consulting business or bookkeeping practice was getting started at the same time. He then employed me to also be in tax with him. So, uh, I don't know if it would be. I don't think back on it as a nerve wracking time. We definitely didn't know what was going [00:04:30] to happen or how we were going to pay for, like, a baby. Um, but I just remember looking at my wife and the the big thing she, we kept telling each other was, hey, we obviously got pregnant for a reason. God will open the doors and take care of us. So let's just take one step at a time and he'll provide. Um, I don't know if my heart and my emotions and mind always aligned with that.

Marcus Dillon: But yeah.

Nate Goodman: It was a lot.

Marcus Dillon: Well, there's there's two other things that I heard in there given the timeline. So you also [00:05:00] had a study and sit for the CPA exam. It sounds like in the midst of all that, and there was this thing called Covid right around March of 2020, uh, during all of that. So it's like you went beyond the hat trick of, uh, stressful situations. And kudos to your wife. Kudos, you know, to that, because that's, um, I think every one of those is considered one of the most stressful pieces, uh, to go through throughout a marriage.

Nate Goodman: Yeah. My wife has been just [00:05:30] an incredible key player in all of this and an encourager. And she's heard way too many of my late night rants of, oh, what are we going to do about this? Or how are we going to hire that person? Or how are we going to pay for this? And, you know, she was always the calm in the midst of what felt like a storm. So shout out to her.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. No, that's that's that's great. That's awesome.

Rachel DIllon: Okay. Well, your advice, I feel like you've already shared some advice of just go ahead and do all the hard things [00:06:00] at the same time and get them out of the way. Um, but we always ask every guest to share the best piece of advice they've ever received. So in addition to that one, what else do you have as far as a piece of advice that you've received and has really helped you throughout your life and potentially your career as well?

Nate Goodman: Yeah, I'll share to one personal, one professional. Uh, personally, my dad has been a big role model. Um, he was a pastor and husband, a pastor his whole life. [00:06:30] And his key verse was Proverbs three five and six, which was to trust in the Lord with all your heart. Lean not on your own understanding, uh, and he'll direct your paths. And so we've felt that of let's just trust that God's in control and he'll direct us, um, on the professional front, uh, one of the mentors here at the firm. Uh, he was, uh, Spencer. He's a little bit older. He's retired now. He just told me from a client perspective. He said, learn to work with clients [00:07:00] that appreciate what you do and understand a little bit of what you do. And I think you guys have probably experienced those clients that they're like, this is simple. Like, it shouldn't be that difficult. And, uh, that was that's been good advice to hold with me as I've worked with some clients, good and bad, and had to have some leave the firm to know, hey, they they also didn't realize exactly what we were doing. Um, and so it's been very helpful advice to guide.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. For sure. And that that helps. [00:07:30] Uh, the earlier you learn probably both that personal and the professional advice, the the better you're off you're going to be.

Nate Goodman: Yeah. Yeah. Agreed.

Marcus Dillon: That's good stuff.

Rachel DIllon: Absolutely. So, Nate, we came to know you really through collective by DBA. So I'm not sure if we were spamming your inbox or just your LinkedIn feed, or I don't remind me exactly of how we connected, [00:08:00] but once I I'll tell you from my perspective, once we connected and I could see a little bit of your presence and just see a little bit about who you were from your website, just really from your digital and online presence. I knew that we wanted you close by. I knew that we could learn from you and also share what we've learned with you. And so definitely, um, latched on to all of that to kind of get to know you a little bit better. [00:08:30] But do you remember exactly where you came upon? Probably. Marcus. Um, somewhere in the digital space.

Nate Goodman: Yeah, I, I have very clear memories of it because y'all's podcast has, uh, totally blown up our firm in terms of the structure that we had. Uh, summer, I guess it was summer of 24. Uh, every summer, whenever the summer comes around, I have to mow the lawn. I always try to listen to my CPE. And so a friend of mine told me about earmark to be able to actually [00:09:00] do the CPE with podcasts. I was like, this is great. Now I don't have to sit down for like a webinar or something and click through all the buttons. But you guys popped up on the feed and I was specifically looking at CFO like fractional CFO, learning what other firms were doing, because I felt like our clients weren't getting the experience that I thought they should. And so you guys had a podcast on what you did for fractional CFO services. And then I was like, oh, I really like what they're talking about. So I just started [00:09:30] listening to more of your podcasts, and that's when you guys talked about the team of three structure. And we were having a very, uh, issue with silos between our tax and accounting department. And as you kind of laid out the plan, I was like, oh,, oh, this is this is the structure that we need to go towards. And we had just overhauled our structure like two months before this. And so I brought that back to our leadership team. I said, hey, I know we just changed everything, but I think we need to I think we did it wrong. So that's how we got plugged in was [00:10:00] through the podcast. Long answer to a short question.

Marcus Dillon: No. It's great. I love that the first introduction of your leadership team to, to us is, hey, we did it all wrong and we should really follow this like that. That usually doesn't have a ton of buy in, uh, typically to start off a relationship, but but so thankful for you. Thankful for your leadership team. Um, I would also kind of back up. Tell us, tell us more about the firm, like, size wise. Um, just to kind of give a little bit of context where [00:10:30] you're at today. We heard some of the beginnings, which were awesome. But, you know, leadership team would love to hear more about that and just the team as a whole.

Nate Goodman: Yeah, I'll, I'll give you just like a What's the chronological order of events?

Marcus Dillon: So yeah.

Nate Goodman: 2019 I started with Jim. He was 85 when I started working with him, running 1040 tax practice. Basically. He had a few 1120s and he had, uh, not a partner. They had separate businesses, but [00:11:00] they shared clients back and forth. And that was Spencer. And Spencer was in his mid 70s when I started working with them. That was tax season of 2019. So 2020 and that was all Covid. Uh, we had our newborn and I was doing our the CPA exam through 2020 with the newborn first tax season. And so working with Jim Jim's heart is just incredible. He loves to care for people and does lots of, uh, [00:11:30] pro bono work and that type of thing. And he looked at me after I finished the CPA exam and said, hey, Nate, I've obviously don't want to be doing this, uh, forever. I've already done it for a long time, so if you're interested, we'd be open to selling you the practice. And that was at the end of 2020. So we started those conversations in 2021. I did a whole nother tax season with him, and by September of 2021, we had purchased his practice, which included him and Spencer. Yeah. [00:12:00] And so then from there, I started, I was still building my bookkeeping business and trying to get some more clients there. And that led into 2022, where I had built more CFO clients. I was trying to figure out my own pricing. I did not even know that CPA communities existed, that there were other CPA owners out there that would share common knowledge. And so I was just going blind through 2022. And that was a very dark year for the business. [00:12:30]

Nate Goodman: I hired a person, uh, I had a I had a budget I had built in Excel. I got the calculation wrong. I was my shareholders distributions were being added back to the cash and whenever I figured it out I was like, oh, we only have like three months left and we're not going to make it to next tax season. So it's my wife. I was like, we tried it, I failed. We're gonna have to eat rice and beans. Um, so and then at the same time, the CPA had hired in 2022 [00:13:00] was like, yeah, I need to get paid more. And I was like, I just don't I don't know how I'm going to be able to do that. And which led to, you know, hard feelings and emotions and things that were said that shouldn't have been. And so then we had to terminate. And that was my first time terminating somebody. And that went very poorly. Um, and then we met a coaching group, and I realized that there was more folks out there that could help me understand how to do pricing. And because the background I was with was just tax prep only [00:13:30] so I could price a 1040. Right. But to price a CFO engagement or a bookkeeping engagement I was just shooting from the hip and hoping for the best and it obviously didn't work. So in August of 2022, everything started to turn around. And that's when we ate rice and beans for a while. We bought like the big bulk bag of rice and and did that whole thing to make it work. And we then through the end of 2022, we started to reprice things, fix our structure of how we give services. [00:14:00]

Nate Goodman: And we finished the year at like maybe 200,000 in revenue. And then we bought the third partner who was in our building at the beginning of 2023. So we could also try to buy the real estate that was here. And we from then 2023, we continue to implement the new model that we had just learned. And so we grew from it was like 200 or 300,000, and we finished 2023 at 1.2 million. So we kind of [00:14:30] blew it out of the water with the new model, but also that quick of growth A lot of pain points. Trying to hire people, hiring the wrong people, figuring out how to do the work. Who does the work? Who's responsible? We have no employee handbook, all of that stuff. Um, and then in 2024, that was kind of a big this last year was a big hiring year for us. Now we're a team of 12. We've started to refine more of our processes. We've gone through the team of three transition, [00:15:00] and we finished 24 at 1.7 million in revenue. And then I think we'll be close to 2 million. Our goal was 2.5 this year, but I think we'll be closer to two if we're being conservative and we've like built a built a sale. We put a salesperson in place. We've been working on doing that now. Um, marketing and those types of things that we're trying to work on the business. Uh, yeah, the business every day. But that's a little idea of where we've come from in our team size.

Marcus Dillon: That's [00:15:30] great.

Rachel DIllon: Before Marcus goes, I just want to note, I believe the average age of your team now versus your team back in 2020, 2021, um, is significantly different than what it was by by, you know, 50 probably years or or more.

Nate Goodman: Yeah, I was what what, 20, 21, four years ago. I was 25 I think, when we bought the firm. I'm 29 now. I turned [00:16:00] 30 soon. So I just have so much to learn. I'm so new at this. I feel like that's the I love to learn from people who have been here and done that. So.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. Well, no. And then to Rachel's point, yeah, the the gym and Spencer, uh, if you took like an employee census, right. Um, your healthcare and your life insurance cost would have been way higher, uh, in those beginning years than you are today. So that's fun.

Nate Goodman: That's a good point.

Rachel DIllon: Yeah, but [00:16:30] just thinking that you are, um, going to be a firm owner under 30 coming up on $2 million. So that's pretty incredible. And if you think about the actual time of when that growth happened, you know, to happen really within maybe a two, two and a half year span. Thinking about it, of how things kind of transpired. That's really yeah. That's incredible. Yeah. I think you're doing some things right. Yes. We all have things to [00:17:00] learn, no matter what age or how long we've been doing this. But I think you've figured a few things out, um, and have done an incredible job so far. So obviously, that's why we're talking today and sharing the story. Um, and we appreciate too, that you are sharing like, no, there was hard times. This this wasn't like the picture of it right now. Today is not what it looked like in the beginning or even, you know, shortly thereafter. It was there was time and there was work and there was learning involved before this [00:17:30] overnight transformation happened.

Nate Goodman: Yeah, it's it's fun to look at it on paper. It's different when you feel the growing pains when you're inside of it. But it is cool. It's cool. What? What's happened?

Marcus Dillon: The. The scars tell stories, though. Uh, that you take with you. And so, uh, would love to, to dive in just a little bit because I know I've got questions. I'm sure whoever is listening to this would also have these questions. You grew from 300,000 to 1 point 3,000,000 in [00:18:00] 1 year. Is that correct?

Nate Goodman: Yeah. And now that I'm thinking back on it, I think it's closer to 400,000 that year. And then it went to 1.3. But yeah.

Marcus Dillon: Okay. I know that that had to be a roller coaster of a year. But what was the what was the mix in that $900,000 plus increase? Was it all that acquisition? Was it organic growth? I mean, what what were you doing there to really have that that big of an increase in one year.

Nate Goodman: Yeah. So the [00:18:30] inorganic growth of the acquisitions. The first part. So Jim and Spencer was like 150,000 in revenue that we purchased. And then the second acquisition was 275,000 in revenue we purchased. So that was of the 1.3. That was the amount that added up to I don't know. Yeah. The three.

Marcus Dillon: 3 to.

Nate Goodman: 400. I'm not trying to do math on this call because then I'm gonna.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah.

Nate Goodman: Be able to do math right in [00:19:00] there. But yeah. So the rest was then made up of, uh, growth and primarily the first year, a lot of it came from referrals. We had a, a good bookkeeping partner that referred some CFO clients to us. And then how we communicated tax advisory services to clients, uh, really helped us lock in that recurring revenue, like the monthly and quarterly recurring revenue that helped really grow that significantly.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah, no. [00:19:30] That's great. Of the acquisitions that you did and knowing we've already kind of talked about, you know, the the demographic of Jim and Spencer versus you and your team, uh, and how drastic that really is. Are some of those acquired clients still around, or have you kind of seen filter opt out? Obviously, maybe some of them have passed away. You know, um, it's just it's it's one of those questions where as people think about [00:20:00] organic or organic versus acquisition, um, what's going to be left in 2 to 3 years?

Nate Goodman: Yeah, they they did have an older client load. And we have experienced, you know, some of those clients passing away just because we have we have a retirement home here that's closed. And um, they were also older so that they related well to those that client base. And, but most we still have a significant amount that have stayed around. Probably 250 to 300 of those clients are still within the firm. [00:20:30] One other helpful part that aided that growth was the acquisition of the third practice. He primarily worked with businesses, and so we were able to then present to them, hey, instead of getting your financials once a year, what if we did your bookkeeping once a month and you could make some more decisions? And what if we could save you $30,000 in taxes next year, and it'll cost you a fraction of that, but it's more than you're paying now. And so we had quite a few people that would sign on [00:21:00] to do that. And that was really helpful to have, like basically paying for leads that already trusted you. And the other kind of key piece, when I was thinking about the purchases was, we're the only CPA firm in tax practice in Black Mountain. So having that practice in Black Mountain kept us saying like, well, we we're the only people here that can provide this service now. Um, was was a helpful piece when we were choosing to acquire was like, [00:21:30] well, we don't have that competition. We might be considering in like a larger metro of having other CPA firms.

Marcus Dillon: Well, and, you know, talking about stories and what you've lived through and what you've shared, I know Rachel has shared this story, and I would love for you to share it about, you know, the storm and the impacts of the storm. And then something about a server, you know, in a car going to another state. Um, so I think that that definitely needs some air time.

Nate Goodman: Yeah. So Hurricane [00:22:00] Helene hit at the end of September last year, and we are, uh, the eye of the storm went through our town. Um, so that Swannanoa and Black Mountain are neighbors. And Swannanoa, the a large portion of it was completely underwater. You could see rooftops. A lot of people probably seen those pictures. The people on rooftops and houses. Um, about a 10th of a mile down from our house, uh, turned into a lake. And we were just like, we [00:22:30] are so close to this, um, and just one grateful that we were okay and grateful to be alive and have each other. We've heard awful stories, um, of people close to us, and also the fact that our building was still standing and our house was still standing, um, we we would, uh, I'd make trips up to Montreat, which is like a little mountain town, and weave through underneath the power lines and stuff. And we would get creek water as high up as [00:23:00] we could, and then we'd put it in our camping filter to live off of. And we had our work camp. We like to camp out. So we have a camping stove, we have chickens. So we were getting eggs every morning and eating pancakes. It felt I was like, honestly, we could live like this for a while and we started running low on freshwater. It was harder to get it. So I was like, oh, we should stop by the office. Um, I don't know what it's going to look like here. We should get everything out of the office. And we got there.

Nate Goodman: I was like, oh, we had like ten gallons of water for our water cooler. We had [00:23:30] bars and nuts and other snacks in the pantry. And I was like, this is great. I didn't even think about ordering all this stuff for years, so we can take it home. Um, and then we also have a server in our closet and we use like Unifi systems for our network. And so obviously the infrastructure was destroyed and they were saying, you know, we don't know when power will be back. Uh, both ways in and out of town are were currently closed at the time. And then about a day later they opened up one route [00:24:00] to get out of that, all of western North Carolina where we were. And so we're like, well, we could take the server, take the networking equipment so people can VPN to the office, and we can set it up at my parents house in Roanoke, Virginia. And so and we'll just stay with them because the town was also asking people to leave. They just said, we don't need any more demands on our resources. We had our little kids. They were starting to go stir crazy. Being at the house every day, as well as there wasn't any cell phone signal or anything because all the towers had been taken out. So we [00:24:30] drove to Roanoke, plugged in the server, hooked it up to their internet. I had to make a few calls to get things working properly, and then our team could, uh, work from my parents living room. Technically, so.

Marcus Dillon: Amazing.

Nate Goodman: Yeah.

Rachel DIllon: That's great. So your firm is a in-office firm, correct? Do you have employees that are remote hybrid? Um, what is the setup or make up of the firm?

Nate Goodman: All of the [00:25:00] above. Um, we have a we have a office location that I come to, and then our other one of our cfo's comes to, and we have an associate and an advisor that come here, and then we have a receptionist or admin that helps. And then the rest of our team is fully remote or hybrid. Sometimes they'll come in once a quarter, maybe. But it's very, very minimal. Um, so yeah, but we use the server. I mean, everyone remotely also logs into the server in our office.

Marcus Dillon: So [00:25:30] that's good. I guess on the other side of, um, that experience, have you thought about any, um, you know, the the short list of what do we need to do to be prepared for this next time, I guess?

Nate Goodman: Yeah, I looked at it. It worked fairly smoothly. I just needed a screwdriver to unscrew the server and move it. Yeah. One, it's nice to have the physical server, right, because you feel like you're in control a little bit, but [00:26:00] there's not a whole lot of redundancy to say, well, how long would it take us if this thing crashed to reboot on another server somewhere else? So yeah, I do think we've we are with this whole year we've been looking at other options for maybe moving to Azure or some other like reseller of Azure that can manage a lot of our stuff a little bit more efficiently than our current setup. But it was nice to be in control of it. It's like if a data center went out somewhere else and we didn't have the redundancy, then I [00:26:30] can't drive out there and get into their data center. No.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. Hopefully there's a solve for that, whether it's generators or, uh, some type of contingency plan for those data servers. For sure.

Nate Goodman: I do know have I do know have a solar powered generator.

Marcus Dillon: Okay.

Nate Goodman: So I guess that applies to that as well.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. No. That's good. Yeah. Next time, you know, hopefully it doesn't happen again. But you know, it's one of those you're prepared for it when it if it does.

Nate Goodman: So that's right. Yep.

Marcus Dillon: Good.

Rachel DIllon: Okay. [00:27:00] So with that growth you had the need for quite a few team members to add, um, in. And so you mentioned that some are fully remote. So where have you found like the best luck of finding good talent? Are they local but work remotely? Or are you sourcing talent from anywhere that you can find good talent?

Nate Goodman: Yeah, I was pretty stubborn for a while about hiring older remote staff. And [00:27:30] so we tried the hybrid, uh, work and saying like, well, if you live in Greensboro or Greenville or Charlotte or somewhere close to us, then you could come in, you know, once a week or something and was having a hard time letting go of that. And it was very hard to find or get enough volume right of applications of people who are actually even qualified to start an interview. We got a lot of random things that you get on indeed, or LinkedIn or anything. Um, and so once we started doing fully remote [00:28:00] offerings, that's when we started getting, uh, higher talent applications to be able to then interview. We've Also used like a Filipino recruiter and recruited out of the Philippines before. And um, that we've only tried one like direct hire as an like an accounting position from the Philippines. And we haven't had luck yet with it. But we do have my executive assistants in the Philippines, and she's been fantastic. [00:28:30] Um, and then word of mouth, we've done some like we've had some people connect to our firm and say, hey, they're doing some cool stuff. You should connect. And so it's been a mix. And we also talked to John, um, with the banana Group to start thinking more about, okay, what would it look like to have something a little bit more structured because it's we're kind of at the whims of a referral or a recommendation or hopefully the right application on LinkedIn right now. And it takes a lot of time [00:29:00] to sift through the, the all the applications and everything to find those. But it's been a mix.

Rachel DIllon: Yeah. And we've had we've had good luck. Um, we our story is similar to yours with, um, offshoring or outsourcing talent in that we had to do actually three experiments before that third one actually stuck and worked. And so definitely explored, uh, two different we never [00:29:30] went direct hire. We did with, um, US based companies that had teams offshore, uh, but two different locations, two completely different companies that neither one of them worked out. And they were for different reasons that they didn't quite fit with our team and the services that we needed. But then the third one did. And so that was that's kind of our thing I am very much go to we tried, it didn't work. Let's move on. And we're not doing that again. And thankfully Marcus is like, no, [00:30:00] it's we just need to try, try again but a little bit differently. And I think that always that comes from knowing other people, like having that network of peers and knowing other people who have successfully done it, and then being able to talk to them and ask them specific questions. What what did you put in your job description? Who did you interview? What? How did you start the training and the experience? And what were the terms that were said as far as their kind of work conditions and, [00:30:30] um, responsibilities? And so making sure that those things aligned better to someone who had done it successfully versus kind of trying the exact same thing just with a different company or in a different country.

Rachel DIllon: Um, that worked out much better the third time. So I think we we learned and got better, which is probably why that third one. So potentially, if we had set things up better from the beginning, like we did for, um, our current, we used Toa and [00:31:00] with a team member, two team members in the Philippines. And so perhaps if we had started the way that we started with them, the other two maybe wouldn't have been failures. But, um, very happy with our team members there and just the quality of people and the quality of work that they are has been a huge asset to our team. So, um, definitely big proponents of sourcing talent from across the world and not limiting ourselves to like [00:31:30] our location, our physical location here in Texas.

Nate Goodman: Yeah, I think that I told that to our team because I'm I'm similar to you, Marcus. Most of my team's like, well, we tried it. It didn't work. So let's just let's just stop. And I was like, no, there are too many people that are doing this successfully for us to just say it doesn't work.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. And we love so our relationship with Toa, they, they provide a service that we're, we're good with, and they provide some structure for our team members that are there. But April [00:32:00] and Julie, who are both, uh, we care for them just like any other team member that we have at DBA. And it's really cool to see your impact. Like whenever you think about like how how you impact people in their community and things like that extend globally. Um, and, you know, April, uh, our first Toa team member, she's really a success story. We could go around and around about, like, just to see her, um, just like any other team member, but come into her own and, like, learn new things [00:32:30] and step up. So she was just elevated from CSM assistant to a CSM. So she's got full client contact, running payrolls, doing sales tax, doing accounting and just furthering her career. And then the other thing that just recently happened is she went full remote. So a lot of times they go into an office, uh, in one of their core cities there. But now, um, she's she's got a little bit more freedom and flexibility to be with family and things like that. So I [00:33:00] think it's just cool to see, like everything that we're doing here in the States that like, we're, you know, touting as like a benefit for our team members. You can also do that worldwide. Um, so it doesn't mean it doesn't mean it's an us versus them. It truly is embracing what is possible as far as global talent is concerned.

Nate Goodman: Yeah.

Rachel DIllon: I thought you were going to mention that, um, we recently found out we do team member spotlights. Every team meeting every week. And Julie, [00:33:30] our other, um, toa team member, she. It was her turn to do her spotlight. So it's really like an all about me presentation. They take 5 to 10 minutes to tell all about them. You know, personally, anything that they want to share with the team, their only requirement is that they have to have a presentation. And she was sharing how April is pretty much mentoring her without being asked to mentor her. So that was something else that was really cool. What April has experienced Variance from team members. [00:34:00] She then turned around and started doing for Julie without being assigned right. It's not a check the box. I met with this person or I checked in with this person. Um, they don't share clients or responsibilities, so for them to have the those types of interactions, it was like a deliberate thing that April wanted to do. So I think that that was really cool to just to see it's not it's not a it's not about like a butt in a seat and just crank work out. [00:34:30] It's really about a value of a life and a relationship that's built and impact that can be made and continue to multiply through others based on what they see within your firm. It doesn't have to be this very cold, um, transactional type of a relationship that it really can be exactly the same as if, you know, they were a state away, a city away, um, like we do with everyone else who is on shore.

Marcus Dillon: I'm [00:35:00] sure in the very near future, you're going to continue to try new experiments, whether it's that or other things. So excited to learn more about that. Um, you know, I would love to, to kind of know, as 29 year old Nate who's lived through this past five years and everything you've accomplished this last five years, what would 29 year old Nate, with all the experience that you've got, go back and tell 24 year old Nate prior to kids, prior to [00:35:30] hurricanes, prior to firm success and firm transitions, what would what would be the words of advice you would tell that that kid.

Nate Goodman: First off, either tell him, hey, there's some coaching groups out there and communities that will help you, uh, in your journey. You don't have to do this alone.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah.

Nate Goodman: Um, and I don't stress out so much. It just will work out.

Marcus Dillon: That's good.

Rachel DIllon: That's really good. Um, [00:36:00] what are you currently focused on? A lot of people are trying to get to. A lot of firms are trying to get to where you already are, right? Like that is that is their five year plan or their goal for the next few years coming up. That is where they're trying to get. So since you are there now, what are you looking forward to and working on within the firm and with your team?

Nate Goodman: Yeah, we just launched actually this morning. We had like a half day session [00:36:30] with a company that's doing a full process and tech audit with us. And so we're going through our current processes because from my point of view, and as I look at the team and the problems that they're facing, our team members feel that capacity pretty regularly. And we aren't able to, you know, scale and put them in basically optimize their position to where it should be based on how many clients they should be able to manage, [00:37:00] or how much revenue they should be able to manage. And so when I see that, I'm thinking, well, there's obviously a process problem here that's holding us back from being able to hit the metric that is standard out there for most accounting firms. And how can we do that while also allowing them to have work life balance. And you know, we want to we're one of our goals is to to have the 36 hour workweek to take half days on Fridays. I heard you guys talking about that. I was like, let's hold that as a goal. That's great. Um, we're [00:37:30] not there yet, but how can we get there? And what processes do we need to refine? What technology is holding us back because it's creating confusion. And so my number one focus is there on how can we either revise the current technology that we do have, make sure that we're leveraging AI where it is today, and putting things into place that allows our team to work at their best and highest use. Um, I [00:38:00] think that's probably priority number one right now. And then number two, we're still focused on our marketing efforts and helping keep track of our overall our metrics, trying to get a better handle and a more efficient way of looking at our metrics so we can get them more quickly. Because right now, it's hard to say, well, how much did we save our clients this last quarter? Where are our clients performing? How are we performing against the benchmark without doing a lot of [00:38:30] leg work to get that data?

Marcus Dillon: So you've mentioned benchmark and KPIs. Um, are there any are there any ones that are, you know, just solid that you either look at for the firm or for clients that you always fall back to.

Nate Goodman: For clients will typically pull out industry benchmarks for like gross profit margin. Profit margin. Uh, we'll do we'll do the same for us in terms of financial KPIs. So are we hitting our [00:39:00] profit margins? And then like percentage or common size analysis to say, well, how much money do we spend on marketing versus revenue. Are we in a right percentage there. And then from like a team member size, our goal is to have $250,000 per full time equivalent or something like that. That's a pretty standard benchmark for accounting firms. Um, and then we'll look at like sales related metrics. So close rate, number of appointments shows, no [00:39:30] shows and then cost per lead or cost per prospect. And which avenues are working more like and most efficiently. And then our internal metrics for our team and kind of how they unlock their performance bonus each quarter is they have to meet four metrics. They have to keep their accuracy above 90%. They have to have a client satisfaction score of I believe it's 90 or above. And then client retention also [00:40:00] at 90 or above. And then efficiency. Our goal is to have all month end closes done by the 15th of the month. And so if they can hit those four. The biggest thing is how long it takes us to actually keep track of those four things. So they can know that they're hitting it to get their bonus.

Marcus Dillon: But yeah. And then is that is that bonus. How do you calculate that or is it a certain amount per each their client load. Or how are you calculating that total bonus.

Nate Goodman: Um, [00:40:30] some of those I've just pulled out of my hat and said like, let's how's this sound for the year? And then we divide it by four. Okay. We're trying to get more standard. I think as we're rolling out this year, we'll try to be closer to like 10% of comp. Like you could make an extra 10%, I think is pretty standard. Yeah. Um, we also do like implementation bonuses. So every client we bring on if they implement, we just rolled that out. So there's a lot of extra opportunity for the [00:41:00] team to increase their pay. Yeah. Outside of just, you know, their base pay. And we did roll out a bonus pool this year. So if we if we do hit the 2.5 million mark and we have a high NPS score, we're getting tasks done, then it'll unlock a $50,000 bonus pool that will split between the team. Okay, awesome. We actually have to get to that 2.5 mark. That's like the there's like this unlocks it. And then we also have [00:41:30] these supplemental metrics that allow you to get 100% of it.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. Well, and and you're one of the, one of the few firms that I would say, like at our size that has a sales person. So, um, if we, if we talk about that role and how you've set them up for success. I would assume their comps a little bit different than even like a production team member.

Nate Goodman: Yeah. So their structure, they make $50,000 base and then they make 8% [00:42:00] on what they collect on the call, and then they make 4% on the first year's residuals. So if they pay monthly, they're going to get paid 4% of that every month. If they pay upfront then they could get a really large commission. Um, or if they pay quarterly, it's all just based on like when that money actually gets collected.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah.

Nate Goodman: But it boils out to where the cost of the sale is about 10%, um, for the cost of sale.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. And [00:42:30] do they set pricing or do you have a certain menu of services with pricing that they just put the plan together?

Nate Goodman: Yeah. So we we brought our first salesperson on last summer and worked with them for a long time, and they weren't hitting their metrics. And I think they realized they didn't want to do sales anymore, or would never really wanted to get into it, was their first sales job. The second person has done a lot better. They've been in sales for a while. They we have a pricing calculator, [00:43:00] and the first thing we always start our salespeople on as tax. So they just sell our tax advisory service before they start to sell any sort of packages like A essentials, which is our annual CFO with monthly accounting, which also includes the tax advisory. So they're still working on just tax advisory. It's a little bit more straightforward from a pricing standpoint than CFO or monthly accounting.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. And [00:43:30] with that, um, or you had started this journey wanting to work with churches. Um, what's that client industry makeup look like today. I assume it's not full of churches.

Nate Goodman: No. Yeah. We. So when we when we did purchase the first practice, my wife and I did a lot of praying and said because my goal was work life balance for myself.

Marcus Dillon: Sure.

Nate Goodman: And we said if we were to purchase this firm that [00:44:00] can't like I could not manage the workload for that. Two partners were doing experienced partners and manage my current workload, plus what they did and live like a good work life balance and see our kids as we grow up. So we knew if we purchased the practice, I was like, we either build it or we don't buy it because if we were to not build or try to grow something, it's really hard to stay stagnant and flatline or that's just not my what I'd want to [00:44:30] do. But I said, if we do grow, then hopefully the impact could grow. We could help provide work life balance to an industry that historically doesn't have good work life balance at least six months out of the year. And so if we can grow it and give that opportunity to more people, then let's do it. And if it's God's will, let's do it. And so he obviously opened the doors. It was very obvious the way that things were laid out. Um, the two partners we purchased, we have a owner, 100% owner financed with [00:45:00] them. It's paid out after tax season. So it was like I was able to buy the firm, put nothing down. You know, those types of opportunities are rare and very obviously a God thing. Um, I don't know if I answered your question in that, but.

Marcus Dillon: No, I think you did. Um, yeah. It's not churches. And I know based on, you know, following you and the work that you're doing, um, you are serving, um, I guess, uh, practitioners or general family practitioners, um, doctor owned, [00:45:30] uh, practices.

Nate Goodman: Yeah. So we. Yeah. That's right. To answer your question on churches, so the reason we moved away from doing church accounting was we were trying to blend business accounting and church accounting, and it is two distinct skill sets and things that they would need to do. So we moved away from doing the church accounting, and I actually passed it to my brother in law, who handles a lot of that, uh, for those churches, because he learned it and does it really well. But for us to try to do both, you would need a unique person [00:46:00] to run that, to understand it. And so we just realized we were doing a disservice to them. And so we said, well, now the way that we're looking at like, how can we impact the church in God's kingdom of, well, what we bring in? Let's give away as much as possible. Let's make generosity one of our core values, and we just give away a lot of the proceeds of what we could make doing this business model, um, our current client load, like our ideal client, we work specifically with direct primary care. And I don't know if you've read much about that industry that's been [00:46:30] forming in the primary care space, but direct primary care or direct care services is like a monthly subscription based model where people are getting a really good experience, um, with their primary care doctors and the primary care doctors that have got burnt out from the traditional system. It's been like a win win. Um, and we really believe in what they're doing and the model that they're building. So we're trying to be the great back office so they can focus on patient care, and we can just alleviate [00:47:00] all that stress in the back end so they can make make the difference in healthcare.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah I love it. And it's very similar to what our industry goes through. And a lot of the takeaways that we live through, we can share with those type of clients because they're trying to keep lean teams and good work life balance. And that's a lot of the same things that we want. Mhm.

Rachel DIllon: Yeah. So as we kind of come to the end of our conversation, which I know we could talk forever. Um, Nate, we didn't really even [00:47:30] touch on the fact that the firm you purchased was fully paper like, fully in person, fully paper, to where now you guys have, uh, remote workers and all digital processes and automation and AI and all different things working to help, uh, clients within the firm and help team members work better. But if you could boil it down to 2 or 3 sentences, what would you say [00:48:00] has been the biggest help in building your peer network and building communities around you as a firm owner?

Nate Goodman: Yeah, it's, uh. Well, it's one it's things like what you guys do, uh, with collective, um, we were part of another group called Corvi. Um, those have all been great resources. I say, I think being teachable and being willing to ask questions. I've [00:48:30] been surprised at how many people are relatively open with what they're doing and willing and wanting to help you and your development. And so just asking the question, asking for a virtual coffee has been extremely helpful.

Rachel DIllon: Yeah. What I've seen too, and this is watching Marcus, right as he has grown the firm even before I started with the firm. So I started with DBA like two years after he started the firm. But [00:49:00] his, I guess, to humble himself and ask the questions and not think they're gonna think I'm dumb, I cannot I cannot ask that question or I can't tell someone, I don't know how to do this, or this is failing and I don't know why, but just being open and willing to share the places where you're weak with others who either seem to be doing better or for sure, or have figured those things out. I think that that's incredible what you [00:49:30] can learn and the support you can get. And yes, everybody is willing to share and no one is. No one is telling you, oh, I can't believe you don't know that. And then like closing the door or putting the phone down or saying, you know not or or ending the email and not responding like every single person is like, oh my gosh, I went through that too. And here's how we overcame that. Or we're still struggling with that, you know, ten years later. So you're not alone. Um, but has been really helpful for our [00:50:00] firm as well.

Nate Goodman: Yeah. That's great.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah, I think you've already mentioned them a few times. And, you know, whether it was your dad, Jim Spencer. It sounds like you've had great mentors along your path and, you know, the, the one day you you hope that you can return. You know, that that goodness to others that are wanting to seek out very similar guidance or advice to you, uh, that you would have. And I think to Rachel's point, like I was always [00:50:30] pretty open with, hey, I'm not. Am I doing this right? I'll pay you to review this. Like, if that was really a case, um, I don't think anybody ever took us up on getting paid. The the one thing that was really encouraging was knowing that that that person I asked who I thought had it all figured out. They didn't have it all figured out either, and that they were learning and experimenting just like I was learning. Experimenting and that pretty quick. You could figure out that you could add value to [00:51:00] that person by what you're doing. And sometimes, you know, it's easier for a new startup firm to try experiments and break stuff and, you know, put things on the line versus a 30 person firm. Right. There's more, uh, there's more mouths to feed. There's there's a lot more liability in that firm to really try to break stuff at the end of the day. So, um, yeah, I would I would encourage you, man, just keep asking questions of people that are willing to share [00:51:30] and soak it up.

Nate Goodman: I will. I appreciate you guys. It's been encouraging and a change of pace. Just hearing y'all's story and and what you guys have learned and what you're developing. So I really appreciate your openness and willing to do this to it's been it's been a game changer for us for sure.

Marcus Dillon: Cool.

Rachel DIllon: Awesome. Well, we thank you, Nate, for taking the time and sharing with listeners. Um, we are excited to potentially see you in October for our gather event. [00:52:00] So looking forward to seeing maybe you, Andrew, at that event. And um, yeah, we just appreciate your time and all that you had to share. And we just pray continued blessings over your firm.

Nate Goodman: Awesome. Thanks, guys.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. And one final thing, Nate, if people want to find you and ask you questions, follow up about why do you really still have a server in the closet? You know, something like that. Uh, is is LinkedIn. What's the best way that people can find you and reach out?

Nate Goodman: Yeah, [00:52:30] they LinkedIn is probably the best if you go to our website and like click on my face on our team, it'll pop up my LinkedIn. Goodman CPA Not.com. Um, that's that's probably the best way to get get to me through LinkedIn. I'm on LinkedIn regularly.

Marcus Dillon: So cool. Awesome, man. Well, I'm sure people are gonna hear something latch on to it and want want to get more questions answered? For sure. Cool.

Nate Goodman: Thanks, guys.

Rachel DIllon: Thank you.

Marcus Dillon: All right. Thanks so much.

Rachel DIllon: Thanks [00:53:00] for listening to this episode. If you enjoyed the conversation and want to learn more, be sure to visit. You can schedule a meeting directly with me, Rachel, by clicking on the Contact Us page. Be sure to subscribe, like, and share so you don't miss any future episodes. We look forward to connecting with you soon.