Who's Really the BOSS?

There may be errors in spelling, grammar, and accuracy in this machine-generated transcript.

Rachel Dillon: Welcome to Who's Really the Boss podcast. I'm Rachel Dillon, and along with my husband, Marcus Dillon, we share the joys and challenges of leading a $3 million accounting firm together. From team structure to growth strategies, we share our leadership successes and failures so you can avoid the mistakes we have made and grow a valuable accounting firm.

Rachel Dillon: Welcome back to another [00:00:30] episode of Who's Really the Boss podcast.

Marcus Dillon: Hey, thanks for having me back.

Rachel Dillon: We are back from recharge, which was our in-person accounting conference for exclusive for members of collective by DBA. Uh, it did take place here in Houston, where we are located, so we didn't have to travel far, but we did actually travel. So we're really back back home and ready to probably [00:01:00] give a recap of recharge. Is that what you'd like to share about today?

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. Um, you know, I feel like we're in this season of busy. Um, I'm sure everybody can relate to that. You know, we've I've been traveling outside of even collective and DBA responsibilities. Um, I'm fortunate enough to sit on some councils with Intuit and then also ADP, those sandwiched, you know, the recharge conference. And then we were fortunate enough to, uh, take our, our leadership [00:01:30] team to a conference even before that. So after April 15th, um, it's been just as busy for us as it was leading up to April 15th, which is I know a lot of people can probably echo that, uh, within their own firms, but great to sleep in your own bed. Uh, thankful for that over the last weekend, kind of being back there. Also, just this stage of life that you and I are in with, uh, kids, that stage of life where we've got a senior. May is super busy. [00:02:00] Whenever you have kids in school, and then obviously having a senior amplifies that with graduation. Parties that were invited to, uh, may not attend all, and then obviously hosting our own graduation party for our senior and then graduation itself. So, um, but then also throw in there the older daughter that we have to move home from college during this season. So May is just, uh, I say it to a lot of people, like, where am I supposed to be right now? I'm probably late. Rachel's probably [00:02:30] going to yell at me, but, you know, it's just kind of living. Living from one calendar event to the to the next. And recharge was a great time. So I think also, while we're busy and can forget about, you know, the impact that others have had on our lives and being able to do life together. I think recharge and unpacking. That is where we need to spend some time today.

Rachel Dillon: Yeah. And I think it's super important. [00:03:00] Yes. Recharge was an event that happened May 5th through sixth for some people and continued on to the seventh for some of our members who are in our forum mastermind groups and also in one on one advisory, they stayed an extra day on the back half of that conference. Uh, but I think it's super important to talk about it, even though it's past just in what was covered, I think so much was covered. So not everybody listening was able to attend that event. And for those that are listening, [00:03:30] this is kind of a refresh of some of the ideas that were talked about. It's a lot to take away when you sit together with people. Um, and I will say way more than just a normal like eight hours that we were in the room together. We also did receptions and happy hours. We did dinners. Um, and so there was just a lot of Conversation. A lot of sharing of what is going on in other firms that are very similar to ours. [00:04:00] And that is just so helpful for us and for everyone who was in attendance, is just to get to be around people who really understand, like the challenges and the struggles that you go through on a daily basis, running a firm and kind of being working parents for the majority of us and what that looks like.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. Um, one and you. May's busy, but people traveled. You mentioned people came to Houston to see us. And, uh, you know, we hosted that, uh, in The Woodlands, [00:04:30] which is not too far away from the largest Houston airport and, um, putting, you know, kids on hold for a couple of days, uh, balancing sitters. And we have a few different, um, working spouses. Right, that came in that run firms together, kind of like you and I do. Uh, it's always fun to see those friends, but whenever they're together in a city where they don't live. That means someone's taking care of their kids, right? And it's just a lot. So we're thankful that the folks that did come into town did [00:05:00] everything possible to kind of make sure when they were in town, whether that was two days or three days, that they were present, that they were there for other firm owners, that they were pouring into people just as much as they were getting poured into. And yeah, just a great time. So you want to talk about, you know, day one, day two, day three, unpack it that way. Or do you want to just talk about highlights and really what stood out to you first?

Rachel Dillon: Yeah, let's let's go through all of it. But not just touch on [00:05:30] the topic, but really takeaways that we both had or highlights from each of those kind of sessions and topic areas that were covered. Let's start from the very beginning though. Let's start with the welcome reception. Welcome reception was held Sunday night. So people are traveling probably tired at the end of the day, but we walk across the street from the hotel to the welcome reception to find how many people were already there, ready and [00:06:00] waiting and started. Yes.

Marcus Dillon: I started on the tab officially started where we were starting to pick up people's drinks. Or they were just, you know, drinking on credit, um, for a little bit. So, um, but yeah, for those of y'all that are familiar with The Woodlands, Bali Westin, you know, right across the street, Bali has been a great host to our welcome reception. And, um, I guess, uh, goodbye, um, celebrations as well that we have at the end. So, um, but yeah, people were catching [00:06:30] up with old friends, and I think that's a great, um, you know, that's a great atmosphere to be in, right? Being, uh, so, um, excited, looking forward to seeing people that you haven't seen in about six months. Uh, in person. Right. We see each other a lot online and in mastermind groups. We're seeing each other monthly or even more. And, um, yeah, just some people booked early flights to get in to spend time together and unpack things, work through it, you know? And I think just creating that [00:07:00] atmosphere has been, um, a success. I think we can count that as a success, that people just like to be with one another. Uh, this isn't one of those events where you're like, oh, man. Like, I guess I have to leave my room now and go down and talk to people and put the name badge on. You know, it's it's not that. So, um, it's been fun, I think showing up and seeing dozens of friends already, uh, enjoying time together was great. Um, you know, and then obviously that leads to more sharing throughout the weeks [00:07:30] ahead or the days ahead.

Rachel Dillon: Yeah. So recharge is for accounting firm owners and leaders, like key leaders, key decision makers to come in and really share with each other, celebrate with each other all of the good things that are happening. But then also be very transparent and open about challenges, and we'll be able to walk away with a solution or a next step or an action to take to start making that challenge better. And [00:08:00] so the fact that this is a lot of accountants and a lot of us are introverts, this is something that people are arriving to early, right, early to go make small talk. Because really, it's not small talk. It's not okay, I'm just going to go get my free drink or my free appetizer and then go back to my room and check email or go to bed early or watch the game. It's really doing life with these people, um, and really getting to know them on [00:08:30] a deeper level than just, I have a firm and you have a firm or we both do tax or we both do, um, monthly accounting. Uh, even carried over to the next morning. Our breakfast for these events start at 8 a.m. they're an hour long, so 8 to 9, we assume people will trickle in. You know, some will get there right at eight, hoping to find a seat. Others will come in closer to nine and just slide in, you know, at the very last minute and sleep or work a little bit extra before they come. But [00:09:00] again, even the early morning, our friends and and members of collective are there, ready to see each other, ready to see team yes. To secure the seat that they want. Um, but definitely to get there and kind of make the most of the time that they have, uh, with these people who they normally just see monthly online. Now, really getting to know them and talk with them in person.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. Um, one it's it's great that they [00:09:30] want to spend time the, the downside of that, if there is a downside, is that our team who puts on the event and who has to prepare and make sure do final sound checks. Uh, maybe clean up, last minute presentations. Uh, we go down early and we have to go down earlier and earlier and earlier. Now, we don't want to lock the doors to the room and, you know, not let people in. But, uh, because our friends show up at 745, you know, 8:00 on the dot. Um, we have [00:10:00] to show up a little bit earlier. So it is a it is a early morning. We can't celebrate too much or too hard that first night. We have to know, uh, when to exit. Uh, and the party's still going to go on after we exit. And that's always the hard part. Um, in those first nights is you want to be around people, you know, that you've missed hanging out with. And, uh, but the adult, the mature person that's like, got to wake up and talk the very next day, um, needs to go to bed. You know, I think that's the hard, hard realization for us that first night. But [00:10:30] yeah, even leading into the the the welcome, the breakfast, I mean, it's a loud room and a loud room is good. You know, I think, um, just reflecting back on that, you know, you have people that are meeting one another for the first time, but they have a sense of community, uh, that they've, you know, jump right into conversations, pick up on some pretty direct questions, you know, pretty quick, like, hey, what are you working on? Where's your revenue? Like, what are you hoping to take away? Um, and then that leads [00:11:00] right into a really good opening.

Marcus Dillon: Right. And I've been tasked with, um, kind of the welcome, uh, kickoff, if you will, the last few events and, uh, keep on waiting for for somebody else to raise their hand and do that way better than I can. Um, but I'm fortunate enough to to do that right now. And even, you know, the, the words that are so personal and, um, you know, build on the last time that we were together and what we've all been working on, you [00:11:30] know, it's just a, it's a blessing to be able to welcome people and kind of start the event on the right foot. And, uh, the one way that we were able to get people moving and grooving this time around was you actually brought in a TikTok trend of forest franks your way. Your way is better and actually filmed it. And we have some great content, some good videos out there of people enjoying themselves with that dance.

Rachel Dillon: Yes. So what [00:12:00] maybe used to be like the premium spot that everybody wanted to go in and get there early to put their stuff is really near the front of the room, but not sitting at the table where your back is faced to the front of the room. Right? You want to be on the right, the correct side of the table, so that you can see and not have to turn your neck or turn your chair. Um, but thankfully the second day people still came to those same spots. I don't know if they will again, but we did. We taught [00:12:30] the TikTok bands or Instagram dance of forest Frank and that was a lot of fun. The what I did, I did learn the dance. I did bring the music, but I also brought the video right? And I did not stare people down. I had time to practice because I knew this was coming. Um, they did not. And so I just stood in the front, uh, and did the dance in front of everybody. And I was so surprised that when I turned around, every [00:13:00] most people were actually learning and participating, uh, with no, like, groans or everyone was excited. So that was really fun. So when I say like, we are all in this together, if one person's doing it, we're all doing it. Um, we've definitely all drank the Kool-Aid, uh, as they say, and so had a really good time. And we're able to practice and perfect that dance throughout the event. So it was a a lot of fun to get [00:13:30] up and get moving, get the blood flowing and definitely laugh a lot. Yeah. Uh, dancing at each break. An opportunity that we had time to do that.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. And, uh, Forrest. Frank, you know, he's a he's a Texas, you know, kid who's doing great things nationwide. Worldwide. Um, actually grew up in Waco. Baylor connections, obviously with our oldest who goes to Baylor. And, um, he couldn't be couldn't be a better time to be a Forrest Frank fan. Um, so, yeah, a lot of great stuff [00:14:00] happening there. Um, so tell me about, like, I guess that welcoming, that opening, how do I do? Did I, did I do good enough to set expectation for the next couple of days?

Rachel Dillon: You did. You did a great job, Marcus. Um, I don't remember anymore what you talked about, but I'm sure it was fantastic.

Marcus Dillon: You just say things over and over again, and that's what people pull out of the conversation, right?

Rachel Dillon: So that's right. Which also helps me because I told you, uh, after [00:14:30] you finished that kind of the theme or the idea that we wanted people to leave with at our last time together in person was the goal is, uh, growth, not comfort. And you definitely reiterated that this time around that the goal is growth, not comfort, that we are there to hold each other accountable to doing hard things so that we can get better, and so that we can create a bigger impact with our team, [00:15:00] with our clients, and multiplied out to all of the people that those, um, that they get to interact with as well. And so definitely you hit that home and it was a good time. I think some people may have teared up during it. So I think also that means that it was good.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah, I think the, the success of a of a speaker at the front of the room is, can you make people laugh? Can you make people cry? You know, the full range of emotions, uh, within 30 minutes. And, [00:15:30] um, you know, I think I think I actually achieved that with a few folks and, um, so, yeah, I know the the goal is growth, not comfort has been, you know, my personal rally cry for the last six months. Um, I shared that six months ago at our event that we had, um, with some of those same friends, and so they've heard it before. Uh, that quote has to be attributed to John Acuff. I heard him say it. And, um, now, maybe I can attribute it to myself. I need to change, you know, a word or some punctuation to be able to do that, [00:16:00] but, um, but, yeah, really owning that and making it a rally cry, that's been a lot of what drives myself, um, the last six months is that we're just remembering that, like, this is not about comfort. We're not called just to lay around and rest. Um, you know, we've achieved a lot in life, and, uh, we're still called to do hard things and create impact and create opportunities for others and friends. Um, latch on to that, you know, as well. Right? Because they're trying to do that within [00:16:30] their own firms, within their own families, within their own communities. And um, yeah, it connects and people remember it. So we'll keep we'll keep using it. Um, and it's, you know, continuing to be a part of our story in 2025 for sure. Um, so any other takeaways from just that morning that welcome, um, kind of that you would love to share with people that couldn't be there?

Rachel Dillon: No. But I think what you did was set up really nicely for [00:17:00] KPIs with the the goal is growth, not comfort, and letting people know that we were about to take them out of their comfort zone and display their firm KPIs. Um, for everyone to see and look at. Uh, the goal there for us is not for people to feel bad about themselves, nor to like, celebrate and and pat themselves on the back that they're the best or anything like that. We actually aggregate and compile those numbers [00:17:30] anonymously. So everyone is assigned a number, and only only the person that owns the firm knows that number. They can share it with whoever they want, but it's not displayed for everyone. So you really don't know whose firm is who. But what you can see is you can see real firm data that matters, data that matters for growth, data that matters for firm value, um, data that matters for probably teen culture and job satisfaction for most people. [00:18:00] And so tell me something, Marcus, that you found that was surprising or maybe not surprising, maybe something that had a big change from the last time that we met and compared those numbers. Um, but from that session, what was what was the takeaway that you had?

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. So the thing that stuck out to me the most was probably just improvement. Improvement across the board. Uh, we saw multiple KPIs that we've been tracking. Um, that honestly, everybody [00:18:30] is working towards this season of improvement, right? We've kind of deemed this time of the year improvement season. But to reflect back to six months ago, maybe even a year ago, and see firms revenue growing, firms profitability growing, firms monthly recurring revenue growing, um, you know, and it's just it's because these people are encouraging one another and taking the steps, making the hard decisions that they need to. The other, the other, there was only a [00:19:00] few KPIs that either stayed the same or that, um, actually took a turn in the wrong direction. And so we're continuing to unpack that to make sure that we have great data. But, um, you know, we also introduce new KPIs this time around because a lot of people do, uh, they want to know about certain aspects or certain service lines within the business. So for those of us that do tax right, so we were able to extract some data related to tax average, uh, number [00:19:30] of returns prepared uh, in these firms and then, uh, average pricing. And then we're able to see that and benchmark it for future periods to see where people fall and then share that. Right. Because if you have that prospect that's coming in and they, uh, they want you to do this return and you have capacity and availability to do it, you need to price it above the average.

Marcus Dillon: Right. And I think having that data kind of in your, uh, in your mind and being able to to use that data to really feel confident about [00:20:00] the decision on what to charge is always great. It always gives you some confidence. So, um, but yeah, I would say the, the one part, uh, that is important to owners and to leaders and probably some of the people that are listening to this is also the hours worked. And I think the hours worked, um, by leadership. We continue to see that that actually ticking up, uh, which is not healthy. And I think as we enter, um, you know, this season of, uh, [00:20:30] creating the most valuable firm possible, running a really solid business, not continuing to to operate in a technician role. I would say people need to focus on hours worked by owners a lot more, and we still have a lot of improvement to do there. Uh, we saw a variety of different hours. Some firms don't track hours, which is fine. Um, but, you know, I think majority in that room still do. And [00:21:00] yeah, hours worked for leadership or owners is still something that we as an industry really need to to address.

Rachel Dillon: I always think during the KPI session we start every event, um, we have historically started every event with that KPI session for the leaders and firm owners and it really helps to focus. It really helps to make sure that you focus on the right things for the next couple of days [00:21:30] and not get distracted with maybe what other people are talking about. What's the new, latest and greatest thing that's coming up, whether that's a software or an idea? Um, but to really just focus on where can I make improvements, where have I started making small improvements and continue to capitalize and maximize that? Or where am I just really lacking? Am I below the average of this room? Um, [00:22:00] even though my firm looks very similar to the people in this room, where can I do better or focus some time and attention? Who in this room do I need to talk to to gather more information and next steps, and put a plan in place of how to start improving. You know, whatever that metric was, where you feel like there's room for improvement.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. And much like my welcome, you know, my welcome. Um, there's certain time slots with events that are the the good time slots that you want [00:22:30] to have. And then there's the bad ones. You never want to stand between somebody in lunch or somebody in happy hour. Right. So, um, me doing the welcome, I stand behind, I stand in between, like, KPIs and people, you know, coming out of breakfast. So these these friends are really wanting to dive into that data because there's nothing more than, you know, data that accountants love. So, um, people were really eager to see it. It was a lot of great conversation, uh, a lot of good conversation and follow up after. And then [00:23:00] I continued to, to lead from the front of the room, um, the rest of the morning. And we went straight into a session on M&A. And so we kind of built with, um, you know, this welcome, you know, really, uh, assessing what we're doing, reminding ourselves Why, uh, why we're called to grow things and make hard decisions, looking back, looking at results and then going into this, this future, uh, valuation of firms actually doing case studies. Right. We've had some experience with M&A. [00:23:30]

Marcus Dillon: Uh, we pulled, um, you know, the curtain back to actually talk through some of the, uh, firms that we assessed and ultimately passed on, uh, but ultimately still sold. So those were some of the case studies that we presented and just the mindset of a buyer, uh, what goes through a buyer's mind and what could be improved so that there is a better exit? There is a better valuation if that's what is in your future. Right. And then we also dove into the current market, um, which as soon as we put [00:24:00] a presentation together and talk about current market, it is, uh, antiquated, right. Because it's changing so fast around us and opportunities are bubbling up that we never saw even as an option, uh, a year ago or even months ago, and we closed out with a panel of friends who have actually been part of M&A, including one that is signing papers. Right. So he kind of gave us a little bit of insight on his process of joining a private equity [00:24:30] backed platform. Uh, we also had another friend up there that was, uh, talking through when she sold her firm and like now starting a new firm, uh, after.

Marcus Dillon: And then lastly, we had a friend who's bought and sold firms similar to us. Right. And, uh, it was just good. It's good for people that are interested in that, um, to hear, um, things that happen, things that go well, things that they wish would have, uh, been paid attention to or [00:25:00] changed, uh, throughout that process. And it just helps remind us, uh, we're all we're all running businesses and businesses. No business lasts forever. Um, and, well, some some of them may like, but they're listed on the stock exchange and we're not, right? So we're all going to die. Um, and I mentioned that, right. I kind of scared people into that. And and the business is no different. You have to have a plan for succession. And looking around the room, um, I know that people were engaged and there's just [00:25:30] so much talk about that and it's openly talked about, but you can't. What we were able to create in that moment, uh, was a really, um, a really trust filled environment where people could ask dumb questions, right, where they could ask real questions of real people that are going through this and know, um, what options exist.

Rachel Dillon: I think also what you and the [00:26:00] panel were able to highlight is really what currently is happening, what's currently being valued right now. And so For example, I think one thing that we highlighted in that you kind of highlighted when we were talking through KPIs and owner hours, is definitely having other people who can produce work, who can review work, who can lead the team in your absence. If someone's coming in to purchase your [00:26:30] firm and you hold all of the relationships, all of the knowledge, and you're not staying around, they're losing a huge amount of value. So in their offer to you, there's going to be less value offered, right? The other part of that was actually from the panel that people like our attendees, our members, us, is just hearing the way the deals were structured in alternative ways. As far as how much cash is given [00:27:00] at close, how much ownership percentages are given and how much are retained. And, you know, kind of what are the non-competes or what are the terms to stay on and work in the firm before you make your exit? Um, so any of that, that you wanted to highlight that you thought was particularly interesting for anybody listening?

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. So where we kind of went there, we actually had to define where to start, because I think there is so much [00:27:30] confusion in the market around EBITDA and everyone's got their own definition of EBITDA, adjusted EBITDA or, you know, some, some unicorn version that we all want to come up with. Um, ultimately, we started everybody with Eboc earnings before officer comp. Right. So it's your earnings less your cost to run the business, which include team and software and administrative costs. But what is that number before you pay yourself, before you have any of [00:28:00] these discretionary expenses that come out. So that's one of the KPIs that we now track Eboc earnings before officer comp or owner comp. Um, and that just kind of sets the stage. Right. And what we saw, uh, with these collective firms is anywhere between 40 to 45% was kind of that average on eboch. And, um, from there, then you can start to model these EBITDA situations like you would whenever you see an offer, an Loi come in [00:28:30] from, from these different groups. So we've got a friend and she's evaluating six different employees right now. Um, so she's got a very successful firm. Every one of these deals is different. Um, and we're kind of helping her evaluate, you know, just as a friend. We're not a broker or a paid person, just like what questions to ask. But every one of them adds back. Officer, owner, uh, wages to a certain extent. So you can't really expect to go to market with EBITDA and not [00:29:00] have any role in the firm moving forward. If you currently work in the firm today, if you're an absentee owner, then yes, maybe. But if you do any type of production, any type of business development, any type of marketing, they're going to add back a part of wages to either replace you or to pay you on the other side of the transaction.

Marcus Dillon: And you know, all these private equity back will just stay there. Um, investment platforms, uh, they want to buy your business. [00:29:30] They don't want to buy your job. And I think that's where we as technicians that can actually do the work. We get confused about what our business is actually worth. We've seen consistently in these offers that there's probably an average officer owner comp add back of salary of about 300,000. Uh, that's that continues to be consistent. Uh, plus or -250 to 3 50 or 400. Um, and then we also see a trail from 2 to 5 years. So [00:30:00] all of these deals, you know, have that built into them. And it's just good to share that in the room. See heads nod people that have gone through these exercises and really think, hey, if you're going to achieve a succession plan externally, you need to start that well in advance of five years from the finish line. And that's going to give you just more options. Um, much like we were doing with this friend, we see some of those options come in at two years, which are valued at a certain [00:30:30] way. And then we see other options with equity role that are valued much differently. Um, but it causes that person to stay for 4 to 5 years. So, um, that's what I would share if somebody wasn't in the room and they really wanted no takeaways. Um, is about that add back for for officer comp of about 300,000 and the range of 2 to 5 years.

Rachel Dillon: It's really good. So after we did KPIs M&A in the morning on the first [00:31:00] day, we rolled into kind of a technology focused afternoon. So we started with an automation and AI for firms 5 million and below. We do have firms now in collective membership that are over 5 million in revenue, but majority of the firms within collective are anywhere from 400,000 to 5 million in revenue, and probably most are below 4 million in revenue. Majority of members. And so we talked about automation [00:31:30] and AI specifically for those types of firms. And what are we using? How are we using it. And when I say we I mean collectively as all of the firms in the room. What are we doing. And we're able to have really great conversation with people at our table, um, with whole group discussion about what are the tools that we need to, to use and what are some of the things that we might be missing. What would you say was the biggest thing that you took away [00:32:00] from those conversations?

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. Um, so the firms that are in that room, even the ones over 5 million that even are approaching, you know, eight and 10 million on their growth plan. Um, to a certain extent, everybody uses an external vendor as their IT solution or hosting solution. Um, you know, I think we are the unique one in the room where we actually have brought in Angel as our director of technology, just to control like we're willing to absorb that higher cost there, um, [00:32:30] really to help others. Right. And collective as well. But then to really set the level of service that we want within DBA and collective and, um, you know, that's a long story for another day. All of our experience with external IT providers and hosting solutions. But I would say the the main thing is what how people thought they are being serviced and being secure with their third party. It is not necessarily [00:33:00] always the case. So we we talk through what a wisp really looks like and how it looks, not just to have a document or a piece of paper that checks the box, but what it actually looks like to follow that and who you need to bring along that journey. And you know, Angel, when he came into DBA, DBA, he did that deep assessment for us. Um, and he's had a lot of questions after the fact from firm owners about like, where are the gaps in my firm? So, um, [00:33:30] that was eye opening to some of those firms that, you know, they just checked the box on these security protocols and things like that, but they don't really follow through on what is is truly needed.

Marcus Dillon: So the other thing that really stood out in that session, and probably people have figured it out way before us, um, but with Angel coming on board, we tested some different things. And that's the automation that goes along with authentication codes and text messages from banks that, you know, just prove out you are who you are. Uh, whenever you're closing out a client's [00:34:00] books or, um, downloading certain financial transactions. So we just shared that journey, that evaluation that he did and that what we're ultimately using, which is a really cost effective tool, um, for these text messages and how even that once they're routed to that system, if you will, then they can then they can route to teams, channels, slack channels, if you use slack emails, if you have shared inboxes and you're not really floating around, um, pinging people like, [00:34:30] hey, I got an authentication code on my phone, who needs this? You know, because that's that's the environment that some of us have been in for years, right. Is like trying to figure out how can we equip team to really get the data, the, the codes that they need when they need them?

Rachel Dillon: Yeah. And so Angel definitely helped out with both of those sessions. So we had actually two different sessions and automation and AI session where we talked about things like automating verification codes, which shout [00:35:00] out to like 3 or 4 different firms who immediately left, and by Tuesday or by by the Monday after the event, within one week had put in place their, um, voice over IP phone number to receive the codes and set up the routing to their teams, or, um, something that was shared with the team secure inside of their environment. And so that was really awesome to see that it [00:35:30] took. I mean, within 24 hours, people were on it, setting it up, had it in place, um, because they were able to be in the room and ask people exactly how to do it. What do I do first? And then they just took it and ran and also had the accountability of knowing, okay, other people from my team may have just heard this too. So there's no more saying, oh, there's nothing we can do about it. We just have to suffer through.

Rachel Dillon: No, there's definitely an option. One thing out of that automation and I and this was actually just conversation [00:36:00] in the back of the room, but a question that was asked, what is everyone using for their, uh, language learning model for their, ah, are they paying for ChatGPT for their team? Are they using copilot, um, within kind of their Microsoft bundle and upgrading to whatever level to be able to have that chat function? Um, and I function of copilot. And so one thing that I learned about, I believe it's pronounced Magi, is an app that [00:36:30] takes all of the language learning models and puts them into one, including ones that have image and video capabilities. And it is paid. I believe it's $20 per month, but then you have access to all of it. Um, for our team, I know that I have copilot on my Microsoft subscription that I can use in the exact same manner that I use ChatGPT that's built in. Do you know Marcus? Is that an upgrade, or is that just with our regular business subscription.

Marcus Dillon: I think [00:37:00] you need to have an upgrade of sorts. Um, and most of these llms, uh, or GPT. Right. Whatever. Um, you you should be doing a paid subscription for some of the security benefit that comes along with and, um, if you're using free versions, that's great. Um, just like with anything in life, if you're not paying for the product, then you are the product and they're learning from you and what you're feeding it. Um, so yeah, Magi is is something [00:37:30] that we learned about, um, probably way later than other listeners. Um, but something definitely to check out. And it's just probably even one of many, um, consolidators, uh, for those llms.

Rachel Dillon: I know that.

Rachel Dillon: There were.

Rachel Dillon: A few people in the room who didn't realize that copilot did have that capability for just maybe a couple extra dollars or maybe included. Maybe you already have that subscription, but didn't realize and that their team could access very easily. Um, it is it is great. I do use it. So I [00:38:00] mean, I would, I would recommend now if you're doing photo and video and, uh, cooler marketing things, the magi or if you're doing some maybe I don't know how, I don't know the security behind it, but if you're doing the financial modeling, of course, you want to be careful with sensitive data, but maybe can do that better. I'm not sure I haven't used it yet, so I was not like our members. I did not go get that subscription within seven days of the [00:38:30] event. Uh, but maybe I will. Maybe I will soon.

Marcus Dillon: Well, I think the other thing there is looking at the software that's, that was openly discussed, the software that's currently being used and what I benefits are built into the softwares that we all use. Right. And so Zoom is our phone system and what we use for webinars on the collective side. And um, there's AI transcription built into zoom just as part of our, um, our price point. Right. And there's also facts built into Zoom at our price point. So we [00:39:00] were able to discuss openly the benefits of that. Um, you know, there's still a lot of questions around. Just tell me what to use. Like, what software are you using? Please just help me narrow it down. And what we've seen with software is it used to be that you would change your software to experience new software, but we're in this environment now where there are changes to your software without you changing your software. So, uh, all the integration of AI and learning [00:39:30] and new UI experience is all being weaved in to these softwares that we have purchased, and they're changing regardless if you want them to change or not. So, um, it's it's cool to openly discuss that with firm owners that are all working through the same thing and leading teams and clients who are using those softwares. So, um, but that was that was really how we wrapped up day one. And then day one actually fell on Cinco de Mayo. [00:40:00] So we had all these friends who came into town. Texas is obviously known for Tex-Mex. One of the things we're known for, right? So we didn't want to, like, lose that opportunity to really have a great Cinco de Mayo. So you want to share a little bit about that.

Rachel Dillon: So we had a Cinco de Mayo fiesta at a local Mexican restaurant. Actually, it's within walking distance. It's right across from the hotel, uh, on the waterway there in the woodlands. And I was surprised [00:40:30] when we walked in that there was a mariachi band, like live loud music. And we, we were hoping it also rained. And so instead of being on the patio, we were inside. Um, but the good news was they weren't worried about us being loud because it was loud. So we got to experience the mariachis for about ten minutes, and then they exited, and then we were able to take over. And when I say take over, I mean we took over the restaurant. Uh, some of our [00:41:00] friends did get up and teach the waitstaff the dance that we had learned the TikTok dance from Forrest Frank that we had learned earlier. Uh, so that was fun, too, that we got to continue dancing while we were there. And then always after dinner, I think small groups of people, you know, free, free to do whatever you would like. But it seems that groups of people kind of migrate to, whereas the after party or the next stop because the conversation is too good. [00:41:30] Um, the company is too good to just go to bed early. And so definitely take advantage of after dinner and being able to continue conversation and catching up.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. So there's a great example, um, that we can all learn from that happened that night. But I'll come back to that as part of day two, because you led a marketing, um, session and, um, just talk through all the things that we've seen and experienced. I was actually up there [00:42:00] with you as well. I don't know that I added much value, but I was there, uh, because you, you have like, really led the marketing and even sales, um, efforts at DBA and collective, uh, here for the last few years. And so why don't we recap that session first, how we started day two, which friends, even with the Cinco de Mayo, um, celebration. Right. They showed up 745, ready to talk. And you're like, looking at your watch. Are we going to start this early? Um, [00:42:30] but, you know, they're ready there to learn and share and dive deep into these sessions. Started the day with marketing, which is always a great topic. So what were your takeaways? What did you feel like the best questions came from as far as marketing?

Rachel Dillon: Yeah. Um, you know, when you're speaking in the front of the room, it's sometimes like an out-of-body experience. And so you don't always remember exactly what happened. But I will tell you the intent of the delivering kind of that message [00:43:00] or what I wanted people to walk away with, is really that some of the things that we have done in the past, as far as our website, as far as gaining new clients that that find us and how they find us, is changing just a little bit and wanted to make sure that people were prepared and paying attention to that. And so not necessarily talking a lot about in-depth marketing campaigns and [00:43:30] email drip campaigns and posting on social and that type of thing, but really talking about some things that people can do to optimize their website, and even more importantly, to very simply optimize their Google profile, their Google business profile. And so we pulled ours up. We, um, went in to edit the settings to make sure that location, all of the locations, all 20 available spots that you can use and, um, click on locations that those were filled [00:44:00] in, that keywords were in the description, that it wasn't just something that someone did just to fill the space, but actually it was intentional. What was written there, um, with the keywords for the people that they're trying to attract. Um, talked a lot about how reviews mean a lot and how to ask people for reviews, um, and kind of what, what makes a review better when they mention the services that you provide, when they maybe mention a team member by name, [00:44:30] if they include a picture, if it's relevant, if it's not relevant, I don't know that it matters too much. Um, but just being real, the more specific the reviews are, the better. Um, more so than if they just do five star with no words or five star with they're great. And then that's the end of it. Um, and so and then.

Marcus Dillon: Let's stop there real quick because that's what I wanted to come back to. And uh, Monday night our waiter went around to [00:45:00] he took great care of us at cyclone, and I was there in the woodlands. But he went around to every table and, you know, just let them know how important reviews were to him. And, um, it was his name. Jandy. Yes. So Jandy, um, at cyclone and I is in the woodlands, and his mom actually works there as well. Um, depending on the number of reviews they get based on their service, they can actually pick their schedule the following week. And so, uh, he was [00:45:30] definitely incentivized to go get some of these reviews. And I think, like just taking that case study from him, right. And learning something from other industries and servers and, uh, someone that's really hospitality focused and incorporating just a small sliver of that into these firms goes a long way.

Rachel Dillon: Yeah. And then the other piece of that, um, was making sure that your Google business profile is connected to your website. So there's a place to attach your website. If you [00:46:00] have social media accounts that are active, you can attach those as well. It just gives Google more information about who you are, and then also people who are landing on your Google business profile, more information, and an easier way to find and contact you. The other part of that, um, is the thought of we do have AI, and we do have all of these llms that I know I am using to search now versus Google. Google. [00:46:30] I'm going down 100 rabbit holes and having to click through ads and different things to actually find what I'm looking for. It's a little bit harder when I use Copilot or ChatGPT. I get immediate answers. They may not be the best, but get immediate and so just talk through. Are people still using Google? Is that even important? Do we even need to pay attention to that anymore? Should SEO be geared towards that? Um, yes. So the percentages somewhere [00:47:00] around 75 to 80% are still using Google and then other search platforms for, um, just basic searching.

Rachel Dillon: Youtube is still ahead of language learning models and then social media's fall very, very tiny percentages after that. So for basic searches, um, and definitely for like business searches, that is what people are still using. There is uh, some coding that you can put in the background of websites to help [00:47:30] with the LMS to find and, um, provide your website to people who are searching within their, um, environments. But definitely that. And so those were just some of the things we did some experiments in ChatGPT where we were searching up, uh, services that Dylan Business Advisors provides our CPA firm, and just seeing if it would find us. Um, and then if it doesn't, [00:48:00] asking it why and what's different with our website versus the websites that it gave us for those types of services? So did some experiments there. That was a lot of fun for, um, the firms in the room just to see. And also, I mean, they're delivering exactly what your competition is doing better and telling you exactly this is what you need to improve upon so that we list you or rank you. Um, so that was good.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. For sure. So that was a very, [00:48:30] um, you know, informative but also interactive session. You had some panelists come up that help, you know, kind of answer questions about what's successful and what what they're doing in their, uh, firms and businesses as well. We also had a chance, our partners, our sponsors that were there, they were able to speak into some of the things that they've seen. Um, and we just had table work. Right. So everybody was able to discuss throughout the [00:49:00] day what what campaigns, what different things are working and where they're, where they're finding their ideal clients. So that also led us, um, into, uh, that team of three update, uh, is what we called that session. And, you know, if you followed along with DBA, the team of three has been really, uh, influential in our success and how we serve clients. Um, but instead of just like, rehashing the basics with this group, we group, we went a little bit deeper on things that we're seeing, the changes that we're making, and that was led by, uh, [00:49:30] Leslie Reeves, uh, who is one of our client CFOs, who leads, uh, a pod of team members. And so, um, within that, we shared, um, how we have modified incentives and what we're seeing on the performance side with, um, just rolling out the 15th of the month, financial incentives for all levels of the team and how something that may, may be so, um, so minimal, uh, per financial that goes [00:50:00] out per person on that team, it does become impactful and it does help move the needle.

Marcus Dillon: So just sharing the results of what we were able to achieve, uh, this, you know, tax season really, uh, with March financials going out and a busy time within the firm. But then those financials going out before the 15th on definitely majority of our clients. I think it was very high, 88%, if I'm not mistaken. Um, so just how we were able to achieve that, um, [00:50:30] got people thinking about how you can align compensation with the performance that you want to see in your firm, and people were able to talk through that. And then the last thing was just the onboarding bonus that, um, we introduced, uh, in in 2024 to our team. And just the results that we're seeing as far as timeliness of getting clients up and on the bus and on that will of service and how that how that additional incentive is now shared with the team and, and really rewards those [00:51:00] team members that come out of the gates, um, really starting the service on the right foot. So with that update session, was there any takeaways that you had that you would want to make sure were highlighted? Uh, for those that couldn't be there?

Rachel Dillon: I think the one of the biggest thing was that anytime that we can incentivize the behavior that leads to the results we want to see in the firm or the metrics, the improvements, the growth [00:51:30] that we want to see in the firm. I think that's always a great thing. And when we can make it a team effort where everybody or nobody and we can help hold each other accountable, better and encourage each other better. Um, I think that that makes that's where the huge impact comes more so than just a dollar amount. Um, and then the other part of that would be talking through being able to elevate team members, so elevating different roles and different [00:52:00] people, um, within the team currently because there are defined responsibilities. And so team members know what where their gaps exist versus to what position or what role they're wanting to move to or learn, and they can directly move to those things. So I think that those were, um, kind of two things that I really got out of that and think others in the room as well appreciated from that session.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. And so and then we [00:52:30] closed out day two, um, with uh, an update just on recruiting and hiring best practices, what we're seeing in the markets, that was also some discussion on, um, you know, what options exist globally. Uh, as far as like talent worldwide. We had our friend Justin from Toa there. He sat on one of the panels. We also had our, our friend Fletcher Winbush, uh, who is in that recruiting space. He brought a wealth of knowledge as far as just the what the market is [00:53:00] doing. Uh, what price points or what salary points you should expect in the market, given certain roles, how long it's taking to fill roles, what it looks like to be remote versus on prem. Um, so all of that good data as people, you know, really wrestle with growth and then obviously the team that they care for us. I think the other takeaways as far as, um, you know, just recruiting and how you started that day with marketing, uh, [00:53:30] for clients, marketing can also be used as a tool for growing your team and recruiting. Right. And so, um, you know, as an owner, you're always selling, um, is kind of what we've learned. So are you, um, selling in a sense where you're looking for client work or are you looking for team members? And I think how we have to be reminded of, um, always putting our best foot forward in both scenarios, um, to really build the best business possible. So love that. That's [00:54:00] how we close out the day. Focused on team not only, you know, the incentivized, incentivizing and compensation conversations, but then also attracting the best team members. Um, so wrapping up day two, any other big takeaways that you had. Um, just as we closed out, you know, the whole the whole event conference wide before people started heading off to happy hours and airports and everything like that.

Rachel Dillon: Yeah. So, um, well, one [00:54:30] thing I'll say, we did have a previous episode with our friend John Randolph, who, if anyone's listening and saying, but tell me what the numbers were hiring, is such a hot topic for our industry right now and firms our size. And so if you're wanting to know what are the lead times on finding that next great team member and what are, um, kind of the compensation price points? We have a previous recording with our friend John Randolph that a previous podcast episode that [00:55:00] you can listen to. And so that way I think it might be attracting and retaining great talent or something along those lines. But not too long ago it occurred this year. And so that is still relevant and matched up with what Fletcher shared. Um, just going out from the event, I think my favorite thing was hearing what people have implemented since we saw them six months ago, what they are proud of, what they have done, what has changed [00:55:30] and and gotten better within their firm or within their life because of their firm, because of their team. I think that that was probably my favorite part of the whole event.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. And, you know, I think collective definitely has evolved beyond just you and me. Right? So we've been we've been fortunate with Amy to be the founders of it, but it's now really being shaped by the people who are in it. Right. And who are contributing to those conversations and sharing wins, talking [00:56:00] through challenges, regardless of it's, you know, just in the full community or in a mastermind group or in advisory and really working with one of our team members one on one. So, you know, I'm excited for the future. Every time we come away from this, it. I learn so much. You know, I walk away with notes of what I've learned. And then our friends, you know, it's amazing. They've written down 50 things. 80 things like just, you know, stuff that they're taking back. And I think with anything, especially that [00:56:30] we're in this improvement season together, um, is that you can do anything you want, but you can't do everything you want. So even coming away from this event, whether you were there or you're just listening to this podcast, prioritizing and focusing are still going to win out. And can you focus on 1 or 2 things and really accomplish those before you move on to that third thing? Um, we just encourage everybody to do that. Um, there's nothing wrong with having big dreams [00:57:00] and writing out everything that goes along with. But as we've seen over our life and over our careers, uh, what you give time to is actually what grows and what actually becomes more meaningful over time. So we just encourage people. You've probably heard a lot of things. If you came to the event, you probably walked away with a lot of things. Hopefully you've started down that path of choosing what's important and what you're prioritizing. Um, but we're so guilty, especially in this improvement season of trying to tackle way too many things. And [00:57:30] then you look up six, six months from now and you haven't done anything. And I think, um, you know, speaking to myself, um, it's probably time to prioritize.

Rachel Dillon: Yeah, absolutely. Um, so wrapping up this conversation recharge event is over. So that was a recap of what happened. It has passed. We do have another event coming up this fall. And, um, it is called gather and we are excited to open that up to members. So members have already [00:58:00] started registering. It is exclusive to members. It's exclusive to members. But once you're a member everyone's included. Right? And so team members and owners, um partners are invited to come. There will be a team member track and an owner partner track as far as the learning and breakout sessions. So excited to offer that if any of these topics are, um, relevant or you have additional questions from these, please contact us. We'd love to meet with you. [00:58:30] Um, and if membership is something you're looking forward to, I'd love to talk to you about that as well.

Marcus Dillon: All right. Well, excited for the future. Thanks for leading the conversation. And on to the next.

Rachel Dillon: Thanks for listening to this episode. If you enjoyed the conversation and want to learn more, be sure to visit collective CPA. You can schedule a meeting directly with me, Rachel by clicking on the Contact Us page. Be sure to subscribe, like, and share so you don't miss any future episodes. [00:59:00] We look forward to connecting with you soon!