Who's Really the BOSS?

There may be errors in spelling, grammar, and accuracy in this machine-generated transcript.

Rachel Dillon: Hi, I'm Rachel Dillon, and together with my husband, Marcus Dillon, we lead Who's Really the Boss podcast, where we highlight the joys and challenges of running a business with your spouse or family. Our mission is to strengthen families and businesses by helping listeners avoid the mistakes.We have made so they can lead and live happily ever after.

Rachel Dillon: Welcome back to another [00:00:30] episode of Who's Really the Boss podcast.

Marcus Dillon: Hey, thanks for having me back.

Rachel Dillon: And we are welcoming another very special guest with us today we have Christine Nowicki. Welcome, Christine.

Christine Nietzke: Thanks for having me.

Rachel Dillon: And, Christine, we have been friends and working together for just a little bit. Um, but I'd love for you to go ahead and introduce yourself kind of what you've been doing and even just anything that you'd like to share with the listeners. [00:01:00]

Christine Nietzke: Oh, thanks. So I have been working in and around the public accounting industry for probably longer than I care to admit. I actually came into the accounting industry just before the year 2000. So Y2K in my firm, I was leading those sort of initiatives to work with clients. I started working with small business clients and implementing software. And when I started helping them with workflows and changing [00:01:30] how they did things, that's where I found that I really enjoyed working. And so I've carried that kind of throughout my career, and more recently, that has looked like working with accounting firms and helping them change their processes and their workflows and getting organized and efficient and profitable and not working as hard or as many hours as they should be more efficient, too. So I think it's been a couple of decades of just moving from small businesses, [00:02:00] generally speaking, to focusing on accounting firms exclusively.

Marcus Dillon: Let me ask the question which one do you prefer more accounting firms or small businesses?

Christine Nietzke: So I really like accountants I don't know. I should probably unpack that at some point. I don't know what that is. I'm even married to an accountant. Um, but accountants are just nice people, and they work with small businesses, so I think, I think the combination of the two is just it's [00:02:30] the right spot for me.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. That's great.

Rachel Dillon: And fun fact, you just had kind of a big life event here recently. So we're recording this at the end of August. And so just in the last week, um, you had a big life event. Why don't you tell us about that?

Christine Nietzke: Absolutely. So my husband and I have a daughter who just moved on campus at college, and that college is a six hour drive from home. We joke [00:03:00] that she couldn't get further from us and still be in-state tuition rate. But it went well. And of course, there's all of the first week chaos that's happening with her, but she's doing really well. Checked in with her earlier in the week and she said, I went to my first class. I went to the beach with my friends, I went to target and I ate dinner at Panera. I am literally living my best life, so I don't think I have to worry about her.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. That's awesome. [00:03:30] It's so unusual to even think about Michigan and hear the word beach. Um, because it's it's the lake. And she is really close to Canada. Uh, right. So it's one of those where it as somebody from the South, from from Texas, it's just unusual to hear those two go in the same sentence.

Christine Nietzke: Absolutely. And I'm sure I'll be sharing with you as the seasons change, just how much snow she has and what that beach looks like in December and January. Yeah.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah, yeah. [00:04:00] It'll it'll be a little less wet, I assume. And you can just walk across parts of that water.

Christine Nietzke: Absolutely, yes. Ice skating is is an event up there? Yeah.

Marcus Dillon: Wow.

Marcus Dillon: Fun stuff. Yeah. We wouldn't know anything about about that. You know, launching kids and preparing to launch kids. So that's a fun. That's a fun season to be in.

Christine Nietzke: Yeah. You don't know a thing about it, right? Well, Marcus.

Rachel Dillon: Will you share a little bit about how most recently, [00:04:30] we've been working with Christine?

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. So, Christine, we've known her in a past life in another organization and got to become friends with her there. Uh, her council is very good for us, both at the firm and at the collective by DBA level. So, um, she's been helpful over the last year or so as we've kind of moved forward and helping other accountants. Really Unpacking what DBA does, what DBA has done to be successful, but [00:05:00] then also where DBA could improve. She's helped kind of provide perspective on that, but then also collected by DBA. Obviously the event that we had in April, Christine was a was a helpful part in that. In addition to the upcoming events in November, she'll be helpful for that as well. So, you know, Christine's background, um, is just, you know, right in line with so much that we do on a daily basis, not only for ourselves but for others. And I think that's where she [00:05:30] is now helping within collective as an advisor for those firms that are seeking assistance because, you know, a background of implementing software, knowing what to do and what not to do, you know, just what decisions to make on a daily basis that gets overwhelming really quick whenever you're managing a team, managing clients. And so that experience is very worthwhile. I know Christine left off some of her, like her professional credentialing, and I don't even want to, uh, go there, but I think there's, [00:06:00] like, a black belt, but it doesn't relate to, like, karate or anything. Um, you know, and also all the three letter designations and degrees and stuff like that. So, you know, she's a very great person to have on the team. We're excited, you know, to have her here and, uh, for what she can do for, for others as well.

Rachel Dillon: Yeah.

Christine Nietzke: Thank you, thank you. I'm excited to be here, both of you. And. Yeah, all of the alphabet soup. I mean, it's, um. It's helpful. It helps. And I apply it when working with any [00:06:30] of the firms or even just with Inside Collective. And how can we make things better to help the firms that we're working with?

Marcus Dillon: Yeah, I'm sure that also extends to family and daughters sometimes. Right. You know.

Christine Nietzke: So yeah, I don't think she's a planner by accident. Right.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah, yeah.

Rachel Dillon: And related to all of those credentials and things. Share with us the best piece of advice you've ever been given. And just a heads up, I do know one that you might share, and [00:07:00] so that just felt like the perfect segue into sharing about the best piece of advice you've ever been given.

Christine Nietzke: Sure. So the best piece of advice I've ever been given was given to me by my grandfather, uh, when I was probably about middle school age. And so I was the first granddaughter after six grandsons. So I was the apple of his eye. And, uh, the the best bit of advice, though, that he gave to me was to learn as much [00:07:30] as you can, because that's one thing no one can ever take from you. And he was a child who grew up in the depression and saw what can happen with material things. They can be very fleeting and but knowledge and education is something that you would always have. And so that has really shaped me throughout my life, which is learning more and being curious and asking questions. And so to Marcus's point, with all of the black belts and and alphabet soup. Yeah, I think [00:08:00] that's just that's a part of it. And it's just continuing to learn more, be better. And how can that be helpful and how can I share that with others?

Marcus Dillon: That's great. Those are great words of wisdom. And once you figure that out, I'm sure you could live a happier life. So I'm sure that was what carried him through what he learned through those seasons. And it's great to bestow that upon other generations. And you'd be able to quote it right. Years later. That's awesome.

Christine Nietzke: Absolutely.

Marcus Dillon: Well. Very cool. Well, I think part of [00:08:30] why we wanted to have you on today and in addition to like, just your awesomeness and, you know, kind of introducing you a little bit more to the listeners and maybe people who you may work with in the future. Um, we see a lot in the social realms and also in our business clients about operating systems that exist within a business. And so when you think operating system, we're not talking like windows 95 loaded up with a CD-ROM or back then it was probably floppy disk. [00:09:00] Um, but I think there is a lot of noise, a lot of talk out there about operating systems, and we don't want to discount those at all. So our hope today is just to unpack one of those that is very, uh, talked about, and that would be iOS. So that was introduced in a book that that's very highly read. Right. Traction by Gina Wickham. Um, and so I think there's a lot of concepts to unpack there. But I don't know about both of you, but when [00:09:30] I open up social, I see a lot of, hey, our business runs on iOS, um, different L10 meetings, kind of different things are thrown out there. Can you unpack what iOS is and maybe even take it a step further as it relates to small businesses and accounting firms?

Christine Nietzke: Sure. So iOS standing for the entrepreneurial operating system is just that. It's a system to run your business. And so it's a great process is what it is. [00:10:00] And it helps business owners keep at the forefront the things that they're trying to achieve through quarterly meetings with an implementer, or if they self implement, they have an integrator in their in their business to do that, it it helps them first identify their vision where, where they want to go and then what their goals are. And then it helps them break those down into those quarterly meetings and then further breaking them down into those bite sized pieces [00:10:30] or rocks that they're called. And so what are those big rocks that you're focusing on each quarter? And then you check in again at the next quarter and the next quarter to keep momentum going. And that is great. It's fantastic to keep those things front of mind. There's some science behind why they do them quarterly. Because as humans, about every 90 days we start to get bored or we start to fall off with momentum and motivation. And so then another check in at 90 days that ramps up the motivation and the focus [00:11:00] on things. So it's a good process. In fact, I have recommended the traction book to accounting firms when they when they're looking for some structure to how to get focused and get some things accomplished in the firm.

Christine Nietzke: And I actually looked at becoming an EOS implementer too, and why I am not and why that credential is not after my name is because of one particular requirement for the implementers, and that was [00:11:30] purity. And they require their implementers to only consult on the EOS system. So for me, not being able to help an accounting firm Specifically with an operational issue or with a workflow. If I would have been prohibited to do that, which I would have been, I would have been at risk of losing my my franchise license. That was the decision maker for me. That was a deal breaker. [00:12:00] I wanted to be able to specifically use my experience and my knowledge to help accounting firms, and I even had asked about Niching. Were there EOS implementers who worked in specific industries? And the answer was a resounding no, because it's a system that works for all businesses, which is great. It's great. But I kept thinking, well, what if a firm doesn't know how to implement some other things, or there's just some underlying causes that are that are they're [00:12:30] creating the pain that they're working toward. They could get there so much faster if we were able to explain to them, if you make this change wouldn't be possible under EOS as an implementer.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah, that there's a lot to unpack there, and I'm not going to try to run the conversation. Rachel so feel free to mute me or something if you really want to do that. Um, let's talk first about the author. Right? Gino. Um, so he writes [00:13:00] books, and a lot of times authors are tasked with just writing more books. You know, speaking, you know, their their thoughts onto paper. Putting that all out there for the world. And then it's on to the next book. But obviously traction. What came out of traction with EOS has lost has lasted longer than most people would have expected, maybe even him. Um, I know that EOS did it go through also like a rebrand, or do they call it something different now, or is it [00:13:30] still.Eos.

Christine Nietzke: It is still EOS.Um, what I did see most recently was that if you have opted not to work with an implementer and you've read the book and you want to have someone in your own business and implement that. They have a one day boot camp now for business owners or a leader who can do that.

Marcus Dillon: Okay, so a lot of, um, we see that a lot in the market, whether it's Mike Michalowicz and profit first methodology, kind of, you know, a system that people could follow [00:14:00] or Donald Miller and building a storybrand, you know, just different things that are out there. But obviously this operating system has really caught on in businesses. Um, I love the fact that you also investigated what it would look like. And the concept of purity, which you didn't believe was, you know, the direction you wanted to go, something that I don't, you know, implementers, you see that in the market. You see people that have that iOS credential behind their name, and that's obviously what they do. [00:14:30] Um, so I don't want to, um, you know, break any NDA that you signed with iOS or the traction Group, obviously. Um, what does it look like to become an iOS franchise, because I have a couple follow up questions on just the structure of those and why they're a certain size.

Christine Nietzke: So to become an iOS implementer, it is a it is a franchise. You're buying into it. And as of this year, in 2024 they've increased [00:15:00] that price. So it's it's upwards of $50,000 just to have the franchise and be able to call yourself an iOS implementer. In terms of education, um, it is self-study as well. So they tend to look for implementers or would be implementers who have a number of years of experience doing some kind of consulting, or they have been an integrator at one point in their own company. Um, I did [00:15:30] ask about possibly shadowing even, and they don't allow that, so they keep it very kind of closed, I think, is how it felt to me too. But I did on my own. Reach out, find a couple of EOS implementers in my area asked about that and they told me really the the education that you get from them, in addition to having the franchise is how to network and do business development and sales. But the actual EOS process is a self-study. [00:16:00]

Marcus Dillon: Okay.

Marcus Dillon: Really interesting. So franchise model 50,000 upfront, I assume some type of royalty or some type of ongoing subscription to remain kind of credentialed 100%.

Christine Nietzke: So they have a system where you'll keep your notes and have access to other resources that you can give to your own clients, and that is approximately $1,200 a month.

Marcus Dillon: Okay, so so not a small expense. And obviously, you know [00:16:30] that they want to grow their base. They want to expand that. And they're doing that in a certain way. It's interesting that, you know, what we used to call just consultants, right? You know, just good old consultants. That's kind of. Now everybody has their own thing. And EOS implementer is just one of those. And, you know, to pay the the price to be considered that and have that gold medallion as far as trust goes that that's interesting. But I think it still comes back to it's only as good as the individual [00:17:00] implementer or their process to learn the system. And it doesn't sound like there's a good way to know the how good they are until you engage them.

Christine Nietzke: Exactly. And so with EOS implementers, they do have levels of experience. How many implementations have they done. And then there's a badge or a marker of some indication that will let others know when you're seeking out an implementer, just how experienced [00:17:30] they are at it. So there are, I believe, three levels, if I'm remembering correctly, of EOS implementers. And so if you're feeling like, okay, maybe I don't want to take a chance on a newer one and I can look for somebody with some more experience and look for a different badge level. Uh, also, their fees are also in line with their badge level. So the higher their badge, more experience they are. Their fees are also much higher.

Marcus Dillon: Sounds like a religion. You know, we watch a lot of documentaries like on on [00:18:00] different religions and cults and things like that and Scientology, whatever. You know, it's just there's there's some ones out there that you kind of scratch your head on. But um, but that's interesting kind of my last point on this before I'll give it back to Rachel is most implementors I see are are solo. So they, they operate as their own entity. They're they're more just a one off consultant. They don't have a team around them. Um, is that I don't see [00:18:30] many businesses, many teams going in and implementing iOS for other small business clients. Is that a good, um, you know, uh, observation, or am I just kind of not looking in all the right spots?

Christine Nietzke: No, you're you're spot on. Because the franchise agreement is for an individual to do that. And because it is so focused on networking and business development and building up your own clients, and these are not long term per se engagements that you have. [00:19:00] It's maybe about two years at most. So you're continually filling your pipeline. So you are working as an individual that franchises as an individual. There are a handful of companies out there doing that as teams, and that is a different franchise model that you have to work with iOS. And I didn't investigate that, but I would suspect because there are so few of them, it might be either cost prohibitive or they really keep a really tight cap on [00:19:30] how frequently they want that in the marketplace.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah, and does do those individuals? Do they set their own pricing for iOS implementation, or is that some kind of guideline through that program that they do for business development?

Christine Nietzke: They have guidelines for what you should be charging. That way you don't have someone completely coming out of the gate that way.

Marcus Dillon: Pricing don't. Yeah.

Christine Nietzke: Price sensitive. You're not trying to win based on price.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. No that's great. They don't want to dilute the brand. [00:20:00] You know, kind of have some other hurdles to overcome. So. Awesome stuff that that provides a great background probably for a lot of the additional conversation that we'll have here in a bit. So, Rachel, I know Christine and I, um, have ping pong back and forth. What do you got?

Rachel Dillon: Yeah. So one thing that stood out to me as we were preparing for this and talking through more of the reasons, Christine, why you didn't actually pursue and go through with becoming a franchisee [00:20:30] was that point of purity. And for me, that just stands. What stands out to me is just one your attention to detail. Two, your integrity. Because maybe they would never know that you were doing other things that were outside of that, but you knowing that that wasn't what they intended for you to do and just kind of saying, no, I don't think this is for me. And then also just your intentionality of knowing that you [00:21:00] want to look at the whole business. And if that's an accounting firm, you your experience lended itself to know there specific things in accounting firms that I wouldn't be able to really speak to or help with, based on the framework of EOS and what I've committed to. And so I really wanted to talk specifically in that direction as far as perhaps an individual story [00:21:30] from a client that you know, that you have worked with in the past, where you would have had a hang up and had to stop short of helping them completely, or even just in general terms of multiple things that you remember that you would have to stop short of.

Christine Nietzke: Sure.So I think a good example is a firm that I've worked with who he took over the firm from his dad, and he had worked in the firm alongside dad, you know. Pretty common story for a lot of years. And so [00:22:00] he inherited quite a few, um, inefficiencies and quite a few, maybe non-ideal clients and the whole mix, right, that we're all familiar with. And in working with him, I was able to help him reimagine what his tax process looks like in his firm, because he had everyone who was a tax preparer in his firm touching that from start to finish and then showing him a way to be more efficient with that [00:22:30] and implementing a tax administrative professional who handles things at the front end and back end. That was just sort of mind blowing for him at this point, but he got it right away. He could see it. And so had I decided to move ahead with iOS as an implementer, I would not have been able to work with him on that workflow. I wouldn't have been able to help him with that. He would have still been struggling with all of the tax returns and all of those things, and it wouldn't have [00:23:00] been able to do that. It would have broken the franchise covenants, if you will, those five ideals for the implementer. So he did implement, and I'm thankful that I was able to help him with that. He's doing really well. He's got his arms around his tax process and all of those clients, and he's gone from not extending as many as he used to. It was a high percentage to much lower. And he's happy for that.

Rachel Dillon: Yeah, Absolutely.

Marcus Dillon: Awesome. [00:23:30] Well, I know that a lot of us, me included and listeners can relate to a rough tax process. And having outside perspective is always a great thing. Um, so, you know, part of this conversation today is EOS. You know, all of us on here can agree that it is a good system. I think, you know, implementation is key in it. And really going, um, getting it set up the right way and holding people accountable. [00:24:00] The different disciplines that come along with running the business and those checkpoints or mile markers that are built into that system are great. I think another big takeaway is the L10 meetings. Um, right. And you want to give a little bit of perspective because a lot of people, they may say we run on EOS, but all that means is they, you know, incorporate these L10 meetings or some version of this meeting into their week, their month, their quarter. So give [00:24:30] a you know, just a background on that and how that could be useful for people that maybe don't have that structure.

Christine Nietzke: Sure.

Christine Nietzke: So if you don't have that structure, it's it's pretty easy to implement when you're looking at having quarterly focus. And I think we talked about that just a little earlier. And it's having that quarterly focus. What are our priorities for this incoming quarter and who needs to be involved. And so it's with the EOS system. It's rocks the top probably three maybe four priorities. Who's working [00:25:00] on them and breaking them down into even smaller rocks. And so the idea is that everyone in the business has rocks to work on each quarter. And when you're having these check in meetings, what's going on with that? Where are we at with that? Who's struggling? Um, are we making progress? Are we not? Do we need to move to the next thing? And so it's really a check in. Are we making progress on what we said we wanted to? Because without a process or a system like that, We tend to just get into the busy work and handle [00:25:30] what's in front of us and keep continue to put out fires, instead of really working on what's going to drag us out of that sort of firefighter mode. And so, yeah, those those L10 meetings are really keeping the focus on the right things to move the business and create those efficiencies and achieve the goals and the vision that the business owner and the leaders have said.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah, that's great. And I think part of it is just, you know, these meetings happen haphazardly and, [00:26:00] you know, there's all the memes. Now, this meeting could have been an email, all the fun stuff, you know, that's out there. Um, so I love, you know, just that the agenda and it doesn't have to be perfect. It doesn't have to be in line with the purity. I love that word of EOS, but something that we've done at DBA and you were a part of this, as well as Amy McCarty, you know, director of operations. And obviously she's on the collective side as well, setting those agendas up in teams, which we know Christine Loves teams is such a big fan of teams. Um, but in our [00:26:30] team's, uh, program, I guess, if you will, um, there are tabs at the top of, like, our general channel, and we've added one note. Correct. Isn't that the program that's there? And, um, within one note, you can then set kind of these recurring agendas to live in teams. And they're there all week long leading up to that meeting. You can pull it up. You can kind of drop things in. Hopefully you've looked at that agenda before the meeting. Um, and then after [00:27:00] the meeting, you can see who is responsible for what. Obviously, as soon as that meeting is done, then you copy and create the next agenda for the next week in case anybody has anything to to put into that. So that's been just a good helpful tip. And we've got those agendas or tabs within each one of like our teams. Right. So if it's a whole team agenda it's there. If it's a lead team agenda, it's there. If it's collective, you know, specific, it's there. So I think that's just a really [00:27:30] helpful, um, you know, thing that we've seen and implemented over the last few years or last few months, um, that's really kind of taken us a little bit further as far as, um, transparency and getting ready for that meeting.

Christine Nietzke: Right, Marcus? And I think you hit on it. You don't need another system, right, to keep to get you organized, and you don't need another application to do that. Use what you have and just and again, keep it pure. Right. Just it's a real simple agenda that [00:28:00] you encourage everyone to drop comments on there or a burning issue that we need to make sure that we address in our next meeting. And everyone has access to it. It's visible and it holds everybody accountable. And yeah, it can just be as simple as a tab in in teams.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah.

Marcus Dillon: And it doesn't have to be software. Right. Like it doesn't have to be clickup or anything where you're if you're if you have office 365, it's included.

Christine Nietzke: Exactly. Yep. You don't need anything fancy. You just need a tool [00:28:30] that everyone's going to use. That's the best tool. The one that everyone will use.

Rachel Dillon: Yeah. And, Christine, we're going to make you a teams convert at some point, um, to where you do love it. But really our goal with that and to, to your point exactly is what is everyone going to use. And our goal over the last, I would say three years at least within DBA, has been utilizing whatever systems and [00:29:00] processes and software that we already have to its fullest potential. So really going above and beyond and using, we can add apps for free into teams. And so that's really the goal of when we say, oh, this app or software does that. And then we ask, does it integrate with teams like do we? Can we have one less thing to open and obviously one less thing to buy or log into. [00:29:30] And so can we open it directly here. Does it integrate. Does it work with is it free. Um, and then one other thing in that, because Christine, you and Amy have been really integral in us documenting these things and having them available, that hasn't always been our story as far as Marcus and I may have had an agenda for a team meeting that we put together ahead of time, but it wasn't necessarily shared with the team. And then follow up or notes from that, um, were [00:30:00] shared mostly. Uh, but this is so much better and so much easier. And one thing that we added that I think is so helpful. So I feel like we're on like same train of thought or stealing from, uh, iOS borrowing from iOS. But the quarterly goals, we make sure those are at the top for everyone to see every single week. So they're up there and then we can [00:30:30] put kind of status of have we met that accomplished it? But just having that again in a place where everyone is able to access and see it, because if not, if you don't see it, it just kind of goes by the wayside. And so I think that's been really helpful for our team and especially our leadership team as well.

Christine Nietzke: And I think.

Christine Nietzke: Having those goals up there, sorry, Marcus, I think having those goals up there at the top of your agenda and then making them a part of [00:31:00] the meeting conversation. So what we're working toward this quarter, making that a part of the language just in your firm that keeps everyone aware. This is what we're working on this quarter. And if something doesn't fit, then it goes into a parking lot. Right. We're going to hold that. Maybe it's next quarter or it's something else. So yeah Visibility of the goals. Visibility of the agenda. This is where we're heading. It gets everyone working in the same direction. And that's when you're going to start seeing real change happen.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. And [00:31:30] we've also included our mission and vision on those agendas. You know they're not at the top. They're there. So, you know, if we were to quiz somebody in the middle right, hopefully they would get at least impact. Right. You know, the acronym that spells out what we stand for and all that fun stuff. But, um, the other thing is just if you don't if you don't have an agenda or a firm doesn't know where to start, there's this thing called ChatGPT. And I don't know if anyone's ever tried this, but if you gave ChatGPT a prompt of you are [00:32:00] the best iOS implementer in the world, could you write me a L10 meeting agenda? Well, you know, maybe someone goes and tries that and we sidestep. Or maybe ChatGPT says that we can't do that for security reasons. Who knows? You know, so, uh, someone out there can go try it and report back.

Christine Nietzke: Absolutely.

Christine Nietzke: And even if it isn't perfect and it's not the exact L10, if it's something that works for your firm. Hey, that was free. Chatgpt just generated it for you. And edit [00:32:30] it and use it as a tool.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah.

Marcus Dillon: So that's a great background. I think iOS, while some people may, may raise the flag and say they run on it, you know, it's like, do you really? But hey, we're not here to judge. We think as long as you have something in place that's helping you improve, helping you run your business better call it whatever you want. The other thing that we've seen is we've got that agenda. We've got we kind of know [00:33:00] where to start. Um, maybe even how we kind of progress. But we don't know what those big rocks are, or we're kind of not clear as as we should be on mission vision values, different things like that. And, you know, at collective we have the service offering called A grip. And so Rachel probably could give a better description of that grip. We've we've been fortunate to work with a few firms now and going, whether it's on site or virtual, [00:33:30] to help them with these grips. And so part of one of the conversations was, well, we're not ready for a grip because we're doing iOS implementation. We're like, you kind of have that backwards, but okay, we're still friends and we'll still help you however we can. Maybe it's from afar for a bit, but let's talk through maybe the differences in like A grip per se, and how that can be useful in iOS.

Christine Nietzke: Sure.So the way that the grip [00:34:00] is structured there, there are quarterly goals set up for the firm based on that conversation, whether that was virtual or in person, on site, and identifying what the vision is for the firm. So much, much like the iOS process, it's identifying the vision and identifying what those goals are, what are the pain points, and then breaking that down into a plan for the firm owner and breaking that, then further down into quarterly action steps or quarterly [00:34:30] focus areas. So there's similarity there. But where the real difference is, is that with a grip, it's it's focused individually on your firm what you're trying to accomplish. And it is very specific to an accounting firm. No. Because the consultant has the background working in a with and around accountants and accounting firms and in the accounting industry, to be able to impart that sort of knowledge and [00:35:00] all of what we see works well, and what we see doesn't work well, and we can share the pitfalls and the, hey, you're going to want to do this, but you're going to want to avoid that, that you wouldn't have on the other side with an iOS implementation. And so having a grip is really while while iOS is a process and it's a system, the grip is actually a blueprint. It's a it's going to get you there exactly where you want to be. And you have consultants and advisors at the ready [00:35:30] to help you when things aren't quite progressing the way that you wanted. And we can have a chat about that and, and give you the push that you need.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah.And I probably didn't do a great job, but Grip is an acronym that stands for Goal Ready Implementation Plan. You know, I think those are we may have talked about those a little bit before, but you can also go out to the collective CPA website and see those as well. Um, I think what we've seen since doing these grips and then working with firms on the other side of it as well, is [00:36:00] the grip just provides the answers for you to fill in your iOS, you know, big rocks and things like that. So, um, if you were able to do a grip first, we're pulling data and, you know, just thoughts from the leadership team or the ownership and putting those down on paper. That way they can be referenced whenever things come up. But then also, you know, we're looking at the org chart, we're looking at the current financial results. We're looking at everything that is within the firm. [00:36:30] And then taking it a step further to what are the goals, what's the plan here and how do we get there. So I think EOS weaves into, you know, a grip really well, um, part of what we do on a grip, you know, is just accumulating all that data. And and from what you've said so far, I don't think an EOS implementer could step over that line to even do that. If they if they wanted to.

Christine Nietzke: Right, it would either be a separate engagement if they had [00:37:00] any knowledge about the accounting industry at all. Um, but they wouldn't be able to do that. They wouldn't be able to help you with real specifics within your accounting firm and the accounting.

Christine Nietzke: Industry.

Christine Nietzke: Many of them have never worked in an accounting firm, so they just wouldn't have that knowledge.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah. The other benefit that we've seen, and we could talk about great benefits, even though we've only done a handful, you know, there's just so much goodness already that we're seeing out of those. But I think part of it is the advisory or maybe [00:37:30] the group facilitation that happens on the other side of a, of a group if they opt into that. Um, the advisor on the collective side or the facilitator on the collective side is able to point to that group and say, hey, where are you at with this goal? Or I think, Amy. Amy had a call last week, and I think the firm owner actually brought the grip to the call and was like, hey, we already checked this off. We already did this. We're moving on this, you know. And so I think it's great just to have that roadmap or that blueprint, [00:38:00] as you called it, you know, as a starting point.

Christine Nietzke: Absolutely. And then that's what will drive those those meetings that you're having internally. Where are we at on this. Because you have that document that's been created, that grip, that plan to keep you on track and it is dated. So it'll say for Q3 of 2024. These are the things you should be focusing on. And where are we at with that. So that helps that real simple one note agenda that you've got. But here's what we need to talk about. [00:38:30]

Marcus Dillon: Yeah.

Marcus Dillon: And I think the experience there Rachel sorry to cut you off is like you said it is dated. So we don't try to jam pack a lot of stuff in Q1. Right. Because given our experience, we know what goes on in Q1 and most CPA firms. So you're dealing with somebody that's been there, done that and learned from it. So sorry Rachel.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah.No with the with the grip. It starts with a comprehensive firm analysis. And so what that really is looking at is what are the individual goals [00:39:00] of ownership and leadership for the firm and really setting a priority for those because I think what happens oftentimes and Marcus, you and I, as leaders of DBA, we have things that we want for the firm, but we don't necessarily have them in our minds. We don't necessarily say them out loud, we don't write them down. We don't give others a way to contribute to achieving those goals. It's more of us trying to figure [00:39:30] out how we can delegate, or how we're just going to make it happen on our own, like we want to give that gift to our team of all of these great things, right? And so it's like we have to make it happen on our own. But the awesome thing of working in a team is that they all want to be part of that success. And so all it takes is for it to be documented and then can be delegated from there. Because once it's out in the open and in plain writing, then team members can pick up and say, [00:40:00] oh, I could help with this or this is what I do. This is my part in making the firm or the clients or whatever. The focus might be successful. One of our other grip completers one of our other firms who just completed a grip. I know they said that they're taking their grip every week or how often they meet with their leadership team, and that's really helping hold them accountable that they are taking.

Rachel Dillon: So each time they come up on a new [00:40:30] action step, then they're delegating who's responsible. Who's helping hold accountable. And so that's really nice that it's a lot of the decision making there and the prioritizing, which is a lot of times where we get stuck because it feels overwhelming. I want to do five things all at the same time. And if I do all five of those things, we're going to completely cause chaos in the firm. And so all of the decision making is kind of laid out and done for you. And [00:41:00] then that way you can just go and execute. And, you know, some firms are choosing to execute on that blueprint or that plan, as Christine said, on their own, with their leadership team, with their internal team members and others are doing that with their team alongside an advisor from collective. And so it's just kind of personal preference or what you're working on at the minute, but just having some of that documented, having help prioritizing things and putting [00:41:30] it into actionable steps that make sense on a timeline that makes sense given seasons of the year, especially in our industry, is so helpful. And I think so far, you know, we have nothing but raving fans of of the group and how because it's just helping them to be successful with their team and clients.

Christine Nietzke: And Rachel, I would say if we have anybody listening who's saying in my firm, I don't even know where to start. I just don't [00:42:00] even know where to start. That's where we can help with that. And that's what the grip does, because part of our process is really having a conversation with those firm owners and leaders. And what is it that you want your firm to be? What is your vision? What is your dream? What is your goal? And then we can help back that up with a timeline to say, okay, here's where you start. And again, it's bite sized chunks. And we are sensitive to timing and seasonality in this [00:42:30] industry. So we don't overwhelm with too many things. And we do have check ins. How are you doing. Do you have any questions. And we have again other ways to help outside of the grip if you want that. But it's I've talked to enough firms that when I've asked what's your five year plan. What's your vision for the firm? They're silence because they haven't had time to think about that. They've just been so heads down, just doing the work and putting out the fires and all the priorities and creating [00:43:00] chaos, driving themselves crazy so we can help with that.

Marcus Dillon: Well, in the next five years in the accounting industry is going to look a lot different than any prior five years we've ever seen, right? So I think the the disruption era is, is here as far as different, you know, private equity technology outsource all that different, you know, thing. So you can't run a firm like you used to. Um, so part of me on grip, you know, as a business owner, you know, as a firm owner as well. [00:43:30] Um, anything we do within DBA, we're going to provide services that I would want to buy like that. You know, it's one of those that, like Rachel and I have kind of looked at this. We don't need to do that. Like there's other people in the market or we have a unique advantage to do this. And it's the same in collective. And I think part of where even I have progressed over my career, life as a as a firm owner now, um, to move forward with something like [00:44:00] a grip requires a little bit of maturity because you feel comfortable with some of those decisions resting on your shoulders. And while you may like be totally overwhelmed and burned out because they are on your shoulders, at least they're on your shoulders and you don't have to rely on other people.

Marcus Dillon: I think once you have a grip, once you bring in team members, not only do you take that load off, but you're kind of inviting other people in to the success of the firm. And these don't have to be owners like they can just be along [00:44:30] your side. And the other thing that we've seen with conversations like this and actually going through the grips, is what was once your dream. And it's so hard to sell people like on your dream and like, hey, you should weave into this dream that I have. Once you're able to expand that and open up, you know, leadership, it really becomes a collective dream. And so I think that's the other piece where you really are able to tap into team, if that's what you want to do. If you want to lead a team, then that's really important. [00:45:00] But I know that it is a just a step in the right direction as far as maturity as a firm owner, to kind of open up your mind and realize you don't have all the answers.

Christine Nietzke: And what a relief that is when you get to that point, because it doesn't feel like such a heavy lift anymore. Hey, I've got this great team, I've got great people around me, and I can get some outside help and then let's just do this thing and it's not all on me. And getting to that point where it's, hey, we're going to try it, and if it doesn't work, we'll try [00:45:30] something else. That's, that's, that's where you want to be. And it's okay to make changes. Yeah.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah.

Marcus Dillon: In terms of experiment, it's not an expensive one. You know, as far as, like, hey, we'll chalk it up. We'll try it for a year. Maybe it doesn't work. Um, I think the other piece, uh, talking about team, we're focused on team at DBA and collective, both. We just we believe that, um, you know, the individual team members contribute to a greater, a greater good than we could all do individually. [00:46:00] And so that's why we've built out a team at collective and DBA that can serve others. And so I think that's why whenever you look at our structure and kind of how we, uh, you know, help other people, whether it's on the DBA side as far as clients or firms within collective, you're tapping into, you know, when you think back to that EOS implementer that's doing it all on their own, compare that to a team where it's the collective knowledge base of all these years of experience and collective. [00:46:30] That sounds like a really good name for something, but, you know, it's something that we keep on coming back to. And part of the reason why the name is what it is, because, you know, everybody's unique skill set has just added to the overall value that we can provide to others. And so I think whenever we look at, you know, how how some of these services can be different and help people better than they were before. I think it just comes back to team. Nine times out of ten, it's going to be a team.

Christine Nietzke: Absolutely. [00:47:00]

Christine Nietzke: The collective background, creativity, education and experience. Yeah, it's definitely much better than just one person trying to lead it and do it all and have them carry that weight on their shoulders.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah, and I have yet to find like a software or a technology that'll solve all of my problems. I keep looking. And so, you know, maybe another mature maturity factor as a firm owner is probably the first 12 years. I [00:47:30] loved signing up for a new subscriptions and new softwares. The last two. I love firing software vendors. You know, I think I get more joy out of terminating software relationships and minimizing the number of logins that our team has on a daily basis, way more than I ever did signing up for some new software.

Christine Nietzke: Well, I think the software sales teams right now are cringing, but they're there to sell you the greatest thing that's going to solve all your problems.

Marcus Dillon: Yeah, they're there to to [00:48:00] perfect their pitch. Now to that on how you can consolidate all apps into one and how theirs is the magic bullet, right. You know, I think that's the same pitch that we've heard for 30, 40 years from those guys. So it's no different. You know, just do what you can. And sometimes it is using Excel. It is using OneNote. That's all in your stuff. So I would say, you know, as we leave others today, it's like it's not rocket science, it's discipline. And I think part of it is just using what you already have at your disposal and maybe finding the right team to help you alongside [00:48:30] your journey.

Rachel Dillon: And one more thing. Before we go, I wanted to just highlight Christine, that within our collective team, you bring a lot of unique and, um, very helpful skills to our team. But something that stands out to me that, um, really, I just aspire to also have like you is your organization and your follow through. [00:49:00] And just in case you know, somebody is listening and they have gotten nothing from our entire conversation, I think if you will share with us kind of how you are able to do that. I feel like it's a superpower because you work with A, you work with other businesses, you work with accounting firms, you have a family. You are helping our DBA team, the collective team. So you have a lot of irons in the fire. How do you stay so organized [00:49:30] and are able to follow up and follow through on a routine basis?

Christine Nietzke: So for me, it's the calendar. It is absolutely keeping a digital calendar. Now I will take notes. I'd love to take notes. It just works for me. I remember them, but then I'll put them somewhere else. But in true truly, the calendar is how I keep track of where I need to be, when I need to follow up and what's going on. And so I will [00:50:00] put tasks on there, as well as meeting agendas, meeting invitations, and if it's a task, when it's done, I will edit it and put done right in front of it so I can see. And if I haven't done that, well okay then that one's overdue. So it really is that. But it goes back to I think Marcus said it. It's discipline to and it's making sure that after every call, after every meeting, I'm putting a note or something on the calendar and, and then kind of going full circle back to my daughter, who is the planner. Right. We have a family calendar. And if she's doing something [00:50:30] and I didn't see it on the calendar, she knows it better get on the calendar because my mom needs to know what's going on. Probably not so much anymore now that she's in college. Maybe I don't want to know, but. But that's what keeps me organized, both professionally and work and with the firms that I work with as well as as collective. It's really just it's that discipline putting it in there. So when I go to it, I see what's happening.

Rachel Dillon: I love that I think that's important for us all [00:51:00] leaders to hear. If you know that you intend to do something in the future, go ahead and put it on the calendar. Schedule it on the calendar. If it's on your calendar, you are a lot more likely to follow through and make it happen than if you, in your mind say, I want to do that, or I intended to do that. I thought about doing that. If you think about it, put it on the calendar. If you get to that point in time in the future and you're like, that's not needed [00:51:30] anymore, then you have one thing to check off your to do list for that day. So I think that that's a really important and really helpful. And I think it's awesome. We have had the experience of having an advisor alongside us for a lot of our journey of firm ownership, and that extra layer of accountability from our advisors has been so important to the success of our firm. Our team and our clients for sure.

Marcus Dillon: Awesome. Well, I appreciate kind of the [00:52:00] background on iOS. And you know how something as good as iOS can even be better, maybe with other things like a grip and the team to kind of help you navigate all those big rock goals that people have coming out of it. So appreciate your time today, Christine. Thanks for being on this journey with us as an as an advisor at collective. And Rachel, you want to close this out?

Rachel Dillon: Yeah. Thanks so much for being here. And we look forward to seeing you on the next.

Marcus Dillon: Thanks.

Rachel Dillon: Thanks for hanging with us to the end of another episode. [00:52:30] Leave us a review with your thoughts, comments, and feedback on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast so you don't miss any future episodes. Join us again next week for another great conversation.